Homeschool Math Success Without Stress

Teaching math at home can feel overwhelming, especially if you struggled with the subject yourself. Many homeschooling parents worry about how to make math engaging, effective, and stress-free for their children. I talked recently to Kate Snow, math educator and author of Math with Confidence. We explored practical strategies to help homeschool parents teach math with clarity and confidence. From navigating elementary math concepts or tackling algebra, these insights will equip you with the tools to foster understanding, encourage problem-solving, and make math a subject your child actually enjoys.

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What Is Rigor in Math? Finding the Right Level for Your Child

Rigor in math can mean different things depending on how it’s defined. Kate Snow explains that rigor can refer to how quickly a curriculum moves through concepts, the level of abstract thinking required, or the complexity of problem-solving involved. While parents often feel pressured to choose the “most rigorous” curriculum, she cautions that rigor should not come at the expense of actual learning. A program that is too advanced may overwhelm a child, leading to frustration rather than mastery.

Instead, Kate encourages parents to think of math learning like reading—finding that “Goldilocks spot” where the material is not too easy but also not so difficult that it becomes discouraging. Just as a child wouldn’t benefit from reading War and Peace in fifth grade, a math program that is too advanced can hinder understanding rather than foster growth. Since children develop abstract thinking skills at different rates—even within the same family—it’s important to choose a curriculum that aligns with where they are developmentally, rather than where others think they “should” be.

Can “Non-Mathy” Kids Really Learn Math?

A common concern among homeschooling parents is whether some kids are just “mathy” and others are destined to struggle with math forever. Is it possible for “non-mathy” kids to thrive in math, or is it a skill they just can’t master? Kate Snow offers a refreshing perspective on this question, emphasizing the importance of mindset and the power of incremental learning.

Are Kids Truly “Mathy” or “Non-Mathy”?

While it’s true that some children show more interest or aptitude for math, Kate believes that labeling a child as “non-mathy” can be harmful. She explains that just like kids can be interested in dinosaurs, history, or other subjects, some children naturally gravitate towards numbers. However, labeling a child based on these inclinations can lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy. “When you think that you’re capable of learning something, you become a lot more capable of learning it,” says Kate. She encourages parents to avoid pigeonholing their kids and instead foster a growth mindset.

The Growth Mindset Approach

Kate advocates for a growth mindset, where children believe they can improve with effort and perseverance. She notes that most children, regardless of their natural inclinations, can learn math by following a steady, incremental approach. “The vast, vast majority of children are able to learn the regular school curriculum… by the time they graduate from high school,” she says. Kate emphasizes that math doesn’t have to be painful or overwhelming; it’s about building on concepts step by step, at a pace that suits the child’s unique needs.

Individual Processing Speeds

It’s also important to recognize that kids learn at different speeds, and processing speed doesn’t always correlate with understanding. Kate shares that while some children may grasp concepts quickly, others might need more time to process. “Some kids are just slower processors than others,” she explains. This is especially true for kids who may be going through challenges that affect their processing speed. In these cases, it’s important to give kids the time they need to learn and not rush them. Homeschooling provides the flexibility to meet each child’s needs in a way that a traditional classroom might not.

The Role of Parents

Ultimately, Kate stresses that it’s up to parents to create an environment that encourages kids to explore math without the pressure of speed or labels. “It’s up to them to see, like, they should find for themselves, whether they like math or not,” Kate affirms. By avoiding labels like “mathy” or “non-mathy,” parents can help their children develop a more positive and open-minded approach to learning math, and perhaps discover a love for it along the way.

The Brain Science Behind Spaced Review: Helping Kids Retain What They’ve Learned

Parents often ask if a math curriculum is spiral or mastery based. But perhaps we should be asking about spaced review instead!

In homeschooling, one of the most beneficial strategies for helping kids remember what they’ve learned is spaced review. This method, which is emphasized in Math With Confidence’s curriculum, focuses on mastery of new concepts while also revisiting previously learned material. Kate Snow explains how brain science supports this approach, making it effective for long-term retention.

The brain doesn’t store memories like a neat and organized filing cabinet. Instead, it forms pathways, and these pathways are reinforced each time we revisit information. When we learn something new, our brain isn’t immediately sure whether that information is essential enough to keep. But, as we revisit concepts, the brain strengthens the connection, ensuring that the information is retained.

Spaced review capitalizes on this process. When a concept is reviewed soon after it’s first introduced—say, after a few days—it helps the brain retain the information. As the time between reviews lengthens—first weeks, then months—the brain strengthens its connection to that knowledge, even as it begins to forget. This cycle allows the information to be ingrained in memory.

Kate uses a practical example of reviewing math concepts over days, weeks, and months, which helps kids retain the material. This “forgetting and returning” approach ensures that the brain solidifies the memory path each time it’s revisited, preventing the material from fading away. It’s why, for example, a child may forget how to add mixed fractions after a few weeks but is able to quickly recall it after a review.

While it may feel frustrating when kids need to revisit a concept they’ve already mastered, this natural process of spaced review is actually strengthening their retention. Spacing out reviews ensures long-term memory retention and makes sure that the concepts aren’t just remembered temporarily but ingrained for good.

This method isn’t limited to math—spaced review works across subjects, whether it’s poetry, history, or any other area of learning. By incorporating spaced review into your homeschooling routine, you can help your child retain more knowledge and master the material in a way that benefits them in the long run.

Is It Okay If My Child Is Behind in Math? How to Handle Learning Gaps

As homeschool parents, it’s natural to worry if our child seems “behind” in math. But before jumping into panic mode, let’s take a deep breath and work through the situation logically. Kate Snow, an expert in elementary math education, shares practical insights on how to assess and address math struggles.

1. Don’t Panic!

It’s easy to feel overwhelmed when we realize our child isn’t where we expected them to be in math. However, the first and most important step is to stay calm. In most cases, there is plenty of time to get back on track.

For example, high school math sequences typically include Algebra 2 as a graduation requirement, and students can still reach that goal even if they start Pre-Algebra in ninth grade. If your child is still in elementary school, you have even more time to work through foundational concepts at a steady pace.

2. Identify the Reason for the Delay

Understanding why your child is behind is key to determining the best solution. Some common reasons include:

• A child was in a traditional school setting but struggled to keep up with the class.
• Life circumstances (such as illness, moving, or family challenges) disrupted consistent math instruction.
• Math hasn’t been a strong focus in homeschooling, leading to gaps in understanding.
• The child has been consistently working on math but isn’t grasping the material, which may indicate a learning difficulty.

If you suspect a learning challenge, consider discussing it with a pediatrician or specialist to explore possible evaluations and support strategies.

3. Develop a Plan to Move Forward

Once you’ve identified the root cause, it’s time to create a plan. If the issue is consistency, simply setting a regular math schedule can often resolve the problem. If there are significant gaps, consider a streamlined approach to reviewing past material:

• Focus on Core Skills: Prioritize whole-number operations first (addition, subtraction, multiplication, division), followed by fractions, decimals, and percentages. These are the key building blocks needed for future math success.
• Use a Condensed Review Approach: If your child is far behind, you don’t need to redo entire grade levels. A 10-year-old, for example, may need to spend six weeks reinforcing addition, but they won’t need to complete a full first-grade curriculum. Older children can often grasp concepts more quickly than when they were younger, making review more efficient.
• Bridge the Gaps Efficiently: Some topics (like two-digit multiplication) may not seem essential in everyday life but build foundational understanding for more advanced concepts in algebra and beyond. Make sure your child masters these stepping stones before moving forward.

Encouragement for Parents

If your child is a little behind, know that this is common and often resolves with consistent effort. If they are significantly behind, take comfort in knowing that there is a structured path forward. By identifying gaps, focusing on key concepts, and maintaining a steady approach, your child can develop strong math skills over time.

Most importantly, remember that progress matters more than arbitrary grade levels. With patience, encouragement, and a solid plan, your child can succeed in math!

Helping Older Kids Develop Independence in Math—Without Leaving Them on Their Own

As our children grow older, we naturally want to encourage their independence, especially in subjects like math. Middle school is a key transition point where students begin taking greater responsibility for their learning. But how do we strike the right balance between fostering independence and ensuring they still receive the support they need?

The Importance of Teaching Study Skills

Before we expect our children to work independently in math, we need to equip them with the necessary study skills. Many parents overestimate what their children already know about self-directed learning. Teaching specific strategies can make a huge difference, such as:

• Learning how to read math texts – Unlike stories, math requires careful reading of every word, multiple times if needed, to fully grasp the concepts.
• Organizing their work properly – This includes setting up assignments neatly, showing their work clearly, and using answer keys correctly.
• Understanding the purpose of practice – The goal isn’t just completing worksheets; it’s ensuring they actually learn the material.
• Knowing how to ask for help – Students should be taught to re-read examples, attempt problems multiple times, and reach out when they hit a roadblock.

Building Accountability to Reinforce Learning

Even as kids gain independence, they still need accountability. Simply assuming they are completing their work correctly can lead to major gaps in understanding. Some practical ways to maintain accountability include:

• Checking their work regularly – Instead of just asking, “Did you do your math?” take time to review their assignments, looking for skipped problems or common errors.
• Asking them to explain concepts – Encouraging students to “teach back” what they’ve learned solidifies understanding and reveals any confusion.
• Providing opportunities for discussion – Asking comparison questions like “How is adding decimals similar to adding fractions?” helps build deeper comprehension.

Ensuring Access to Help When Needed

No matter how independent a student becomes, math will inevitably present challenges that require guidance. Even the most responsible learners will sometimes need extra support. Consider these options:

• Parental involvement – If you’re comfortable with the material, be available to help work through difficult concepts.
• Outsourcing to tutors or co-op classes – If math isn’t your strength, finding a knowledgeable mentor, whether a tutor, an older sibling, or a class, can provide much-needed support.
• Utilizing technology – Video calls with a relative, online resources, and instructional videos can be a great supplement when in-person help isn’t available.

Balancing Independence and Support

Encouraging independence in math doesn’t mean handing off the subject entirely. Instead, it’s about providing the right tools, accountability, and access to support so that our children not only complete their math assignments but truly understand and apply what they’re learning. And sometimes, outsourcing instruction isn’t about lacking knowledge—it’s about preserving family relationships and making the learning process more enjoyable for everyone!

By intentionally equipping our kids with study skills, keeping them accountable, and ensuring they have the right support system, we can help them build confidence and competence in math while still maintaining a guiding presence in their education.

Are You Ever Too Old for Math Games?

When it comes to homeschooling, one common question parents have is whether older students are too old for math games. Are they just a fun distraction, or do they still serve a purpose in upper-level math?

According to Kate Snow, the answer is clear: math games are never a waste of time—though students’ preferences can vary.

Kate, who is currently pilot testing Sixth Grade Math with Confidence, has observed an interesting shift in how students engage with math games as they get older. Some kids who once loved playing math games start leaning toward more independent study, while others continue to enjoy the interactive, game-based approach.

Because of this, Sixth Grade Math with Confidence will still include games, though slightly fewer than earlier levels, to accommodate students who are ready for more independent, pen-and-paper thinking. However, Kate emphasizes that even in advanced math—whether it’s pre-algebra or algebra—playing games can be a great way to reinforce concepts.

For instance, students can challenge their parents to a tic-tac-toe game where they solve for variables, or explore creative ways to turn exponents or decimal division into engaging activities.

At the end of the day, the goal isn’t the game itself—it’s the learning. If a student enjoys the games, great! If not, parents can simply pull a few practice problems from the game board and use them as written exercises instead. The key is practicing skills in a way that fits the student’s needs while keeping math engaging and interactive.

So, are kids ever too old for math games? Not at all! But their approach to them may change—and that’s okay.

Encouragement for Parents Who Don’t Feel Confident in Math

Many homeschooling parents worry about teaching math, especially if they struggled with it themselves. If you’ve ever thought, I barely remember fractions—how can I possibly teach algebra?, you’re not alone! But the good news is, you can learn and grow alongside your child.

Kate Snow offers three key pieces of advice for parents who feel nervous about math:

1. Believe That You Are Capable of Learning

A lack of confidence in math often comes from a poor math education—not from a lack of ability. If math was difficult for you in school, that doesn’t mean you can’t learn it now! Many homeschool parents are already juggling complex responsibilities, proving they are capable thinkers and problem-solvers. Approach math with a growth mindset, knowing that you can improve and learn.

2. Engage in Learning Alongside Your Child

One of the best ways to overcome math anxiety is to actively engage with the material as you teach it. Read the explanations, study the diagrams, and truly think through each concept. When you start with early elementary math, you’ll likely feel more comfortable, and as your child grows in their skills, you’ll grow too.

Kate has seen this firsthand while pilot-testing Sixth Grade Math with Confidence. Many parents have had aha! moments when learning concepts like dividing fractions—something they never fully understood in school.

3. Embrace the Joy of Discovery

Your enthusiasm matters! If you approach math with an open, curious attitude—saying things like Wow! I never knew that! or Can you explain this to me?—your child will likely respond with excitement. Kids love the chance to “teach” their parents, and this reinforces their own understanding.

By modeling perseverance and a willingness to learn, you also instill a positive math mindset in your child. The goal is to foster an attitude of exploration and persistence—qualities that will serve them well in all areas of learning.

So, if you’re feeling uncertain about teaching math, take heart: you are not alone, and you are more capable than you think!

Should You Skip Ahead If Your Child Is Flying Through the Math Lessons?

When your child seems to grasp math concepts quickly, it’s natural to wonder whether you should keep following the curriculum as written or skip ahead. Kate Snow offers a balanced approach:

1. Use the Curriculum as a Tool, Not a Master

Most math programs include more than what a child must do in order to learn. If your child is absorbing concepts quickly, you don’t need to force them through every single exercise or lesson. Feel free to combine lessons or skip repetitive practice when it’s unnecessary.

2. Make Them Prove They Understand

Before moving ahead too quickly, check your child’s understanding in a concrete way:

• Ask them to explain the concept in their own words.
• Have them solve a problem without help.
• Ask them why a particular math rule or method works.

Sometimes kids seem confident but later struggle because they didn’t fully internalize the concept. By making them demonstrate understanding, you ensure they truly grasp it before advancing.

3. Adjust for Your Child’s Learning Pace

Every child absorbs information differently. Some need small steps with plenty of reinforcement, while others are eager to push ahead. If your child is ready to combine multiple lessons or skip certain practice pages, that’s okay! Just be mindful of their individual learning style.

4. It’s Okay to Backtrack If Needed

If you realize later that your child missed something, don’t stress—just go back and review. Learning isn’t a straight path, and reviewing past concepts when necessary is part of the process.

5. Remember: You Are the Teacher

Curriculum is a tool, but you know your child best. Trust yourself to make adjustments based on their needs rather than following a program rigidly. Your goal is to help this child learn, not to follow an idealized version of how math should be taught.

By staying flexible and attentive, you can ensure your child moves forward at the right pace—without unnecessary frustration or wasted time!

Key Takeaways

• Math Should Make Sense – Instead of just memorizing rules, children (and parents) should focus on truly understanding why math works. When math makes sense, it becomes easier and more enjoyable to learn.
• Practice with Purpose – Repetition helps with mastery, but it should be meaningful. Instead of endless drill worksheets, focus on solving problems that reinforce understanding and build confidence.
• Teach in Small, Logical Steps – A well-structured math program should introduce concepts incrementally, making it easier for kids to grasp new ideas without feeling overwhelmed.
• Real-Life Connections Make Math More Engaging – Applying math to everyday life (like measuring, budgeting, or cooking) helps kids see its relevance and builds problem-solving skills.
• Parents Can Learn Alongside Their Children – Even if a parent feels unsure about their own math skills, they can learn and grow with their child. Adopting a growth mindset makes all the difference.
• Skipping Lessons Can Be Okay—With Caution – If a child is flying through lessons, parents can move ahead, but they should ensure real mastery by having the child explain the concept or solve a problem independently.
• Mistakes Are Part of the Learning Process – Kids need to see mistakes as a normal part of learning rather than something to be afraid of. A patient, problem-solving approach helps build resilience and confidence.
• Different Kids Need Different Pacing – Some children need a slower, step-by-step approach, while others are eager to move faster. Parents should adjust based on what works best for their child.
• Math Anxiety Can Be Overcome – Many parents (and kids) have had poor math experiences, but that doesn’t mean they can’t develop confidence and even enjoyment in the subject. A supportive, understanding approach makes a big difference.
• Parents Are the Teachers—Not the Curriculum – A curriculum is just a tool. Parents should adapt and modify it as needed to meet their child’s unique learning needs, rather than feeling bound to follow it rigidly.

Listen to the full podcast episode “Homeschool Math Success Without Stress with Kate Snow” on  Homeschool Conversations with Humility and Doxology

Kate Snow is a math educator on a mission to help parents raise kids who are capable and confident in math. With experience as a homeschool parent, classroom teacher, and curriculum writer, she holds a B.A. in Mathematics from Harvard University and an M.S. in Elementary Education from Walden University. Kate is the author of Preschool Math at Home, the Math Facts That Stick series, and the Math with Confidence curriculum. She writes at kateshomeschoolmath.com.

Find Kate Snow Online

• Website
• Books 
• Math With Confidence Facebook Community

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Amy Sloan: Hello, friends. I am so delighted to be joined here today by Kate Snow, who is a math educator on a mission to help parents raise kids who are capable and confident in math. With experience as a homeschool parent, classroom teacher, and curriculum writer, Kate holds a BA in mathematics from Harvard University and an MS in elementary education from Walden University. Kate is the author of Preschool Math at Home, the Math Facts That Stick series, and my family’s personal favorite, the Math with Confidence curriculum, and she writes at katehomeschoolmath.com. Kate, I’m delighted to be here today with you, and I just really appreciate you coming on for a second time to the podcast.

Kate Snow: Well, thanks so much for having me, Amy. I’m so excited to be here and so appreciative of your support for Math with Confidence.

Amy Sloan: Well, it’s definitely a favorite. It’s a favorite with me and Isaac, so if anyone has not checked that out, they should. But today, I just want to jump right into some kind of mathy questions. There are more general questions we have talked about before, and I’ll put a link to our previous conversation in the show notes. But this is a question I see come up a lot, and that’s just this question of what actually is rigor in math? You know, how do you find the right level of rigor for your particular child? What would you say?

Kate Snow: What would be your perspective on that? So I think when people talk about rigor, they’re often talking about different things. So it’s first important to kind of define what aspect of rigor you’re talking about in this question. Some people see rigor as how fast a curriculum moves. So is this concept covered in fifth grade or is it covered in sixth grade? That’s kind of the speed aspect of rigor. But it can also be about the level of abstract thinking that children have to engage in. So, for example, a third grader who’s thinking about multiplication, could think about that in a very concrete way or in a very abstract way, even with some programs even use some like letters as variables in third grade. And so it could be the same concept, but the level of abstraction. And then there’s also a level of challenge and complication. Some programs really focus on complex, multi-step word problems for children to solve. And so those are all very different ways to think about what rigor means. I think. For parents, it can often feel tempting just be, I need the most rigorous curriculum possible, right? Because we all wanted, we all want our children to be, you know, capable and confident in math. We all have that same goal. We all want them to be doing great. But if you choose, if you choose a program that’s not well suited for your child, that doesn’t mean your child’s going to actually learn anything, right? Right. And so, for example, like Art of Problem Solving has a wonderful middle school and high school program that is probably the most rigorous, program you can buy. It is amazing. But for most kids, it would be a disaster because it’s so abstract. It takes so much complex thinking. It’s very hard. And so for some kids, it’s a wonderful, like, option for them. And then for other kids, you know, a parent might spend hours a day kind of spoon feeding every morsel of information just to get the homework done without the child actually learning anything. And so when we’re thinking about rigor for our own kids, we got to think about, well, what’s actually going to suit them and help them learn the best? I think of it kind of like reading. I think that’s an analogy that’s helpful sometimes where, you know, you don’t want kids reading books that are weight or to help your child learn to read and then to learn to improve their reading. You don’t want them to just be reading, you know, super easy books, right? Because that doesn’t help anybody grow. But you also don’t want to give them war and peace when they’re in fifth grade. That’s the most that’s a very rigorous option for them. But. It won’t actually help them grow as a reader. It will teach them to hate reading. It will leave them confused. They might make their way through a chapter, but they’ll have no idea what’s going on and won’t learn much from it. Whereas if you find a book that’s interesting to them, engaging at their grade level, at their reading level, then they can get in there. They can learn from that book. They can grow as a reader. And I think math is the same way. Like finding that I call it kind of the Goldilocks spot, like not too hard, not too easy, just right, is where I recommend that parents look when they’re trying to figure out what kind of math program to buy, not just what is the most rigorous option out there, because for most kids, that’s not actually what’s going to help them learn.

Amy Sloan: And we’ve all heard, you know, that one kid who read war and peace in fifth grade. OK, well, they did it. It must be possible. Therefore, that’s my goal for my children, which is on its face. So, so silly. And we know that that would not be a good fit for most of our children. In the same way that some children seem to have a growth spurt very early and need larger clothes, right? But it’s like we can’t set up, or even within siblings, I find this even in my own family, within five kids, being ready for abstract thinking at very different ages. And that’s not because some are good at math and some are bad at math, you know, because their minds were just ready for a different part of math at a different stage. Right. It’s like, well, you know, if I were a kid and I were to force it in the wrong place at the wrong time, it would have been a disaster.

Kate Snow: Right. It’d be like, well, I know some nine months old can crawl. So I’m going to teach you how to crawl. We’re going to do crawling practice. You know, where it’s like, no, no, no, their brain’s going to be there. It’s going to be fine. But is it right now? Like, let’s, let’s let them, you know, let’s meet them where they’re at, not at where some other kid could be.

Amy Sloan: Yeah. You know, this makes me think of this idea that I actually, as one of my pet peeves, I hear parents say, oh, I’m not a math person, or even I am a math person, or they’ll describe that about their kids. Like, I have my math kid and my non-mathy kid. You know, that non-mathy kid can’t ever really be expected to thrive or understand with math. So how do you kind of think about this idea? We know children, of course, are different, right? We have different strengths and inclinations and interests. Of course we do. Um, but is there maybe something wrong with this sort of like math versus non-mathy kid? And what do we do if we think we have a kid who’s not mathy?

Kate Snow: Oh, I love that question. I mean, like you said, some kids are just more interested in numbers, right? Just like some kids are more interested in history and some kids are more interested in dinosaurs. You know, like we all have our own interests and our own inclinations and our kids’ abstract reasoning grows at different rates. Right. Just as a sixth grader, either way, whichever, you know, it’s just that their brain has their abstract reasoning has developed a little bit more quickly than average. And they’ve found something interesting about numbers. But then the label we put on that child becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, either direction. Right. And that’s what I get very concerned about, especially when we think about how often girls in our society have been labeled as non-maths. non-mathy, just simply because that is a stereotype that used to exist about girls, you know, and to think of how that short changes girls. And so, you know, there’s a lot of research on kind of this idea of a growth mindset, that when you think that you’re capable of learning something, you become a lot more capable of learning it, and that when you then continue to work at it, well, look, you get better at it. Amazing. And, and it’s, there are certainly like some kids are going to go faster and further in math, some kids are going to be more interested, but the vast, vast majority of children are able to learn the regular school curriculum, you know, by the time they graduate from high school to get through Algebra 2, say, which is the graduation requirement in most states, and to do it in a way that is not painful. It doesn’t have to be, again, you don’t have to use the most rigorous curriculum, but that for most children, that is a, you know, if you just take it step by step, build the curriculum, you’re going to be able to do it in a way that is not painful. Building each year, just the little steps that help you grow it, it’s just kind of walking up the mountain, just like one little switchback at a time, instead of like going straight up. And different kids need those switchbacks to be like steeper, to take my metaphor further, you know, some kids need them real gentle, and some kids can climb them up a little faster. But that all kids are capable of, not all kids, but the vast majority of kids are capable of getting there. And some kids do have significant learning differences, and some kids don’t. And some kids do have significant learning differences, that sometimes can make that difficult. And so not to discount that either, you know, that there is a very small percentage of children for whom math is very, very difficult. And they may need, the parents might need some help from professionals in figuring out what’s reasonable for this child, what accommodations can I make to help them learn as much as they’re going to need for real life, and to get through kind of a college or high school graduation requirements. But from, even most, most non mathy kids are fully capable of it. And I don’t like to label them that way, because it’s up to them, you know, it’s up to them to see, like, they should find for themselves, whether they like math or not, we shouldn’t put that on as their parents.

Amy Sloan: I appreciate that. Yeah, that’s something actually, I’m very thankful. My mom always was really good at not sort of labeling, like, oh, you’re good at math, or you’re not a math person, or, oh, you just, you know, I was never a good test taker. That’s another one, you know, like, oh, so, because, kids absorb the things we say about our own experience as well. And it can kind of be something that becomes the story they tell themselves, right? And so just, you know, just because you have a child who’s maybe very verbal and enjoys books, you don’t say, oh, well, you’re just a literature person, not a math person. Right? You could like both.

Kate Snow: You can. And there’s a big difference between your ability to become proficient at something and the speed at which you become proficient at it, right?

Amy Sloan: Yeah.

Kate Snow: Some kids take years to learn how to read, but we don’t say that they’re not readers, or that they’re not reading people. And like, some kids take a little bit longer to learn math, but they’re very capable of it. And it’ll benefit them for a lifetime to master the basics.

Amy Sloan: Yeah. And bringing up that point of speed, you know, sometimes we equate how quickly you can accomplish, you know, a task, or how quickly you master a subject, or how quickly you can answer a math problem with your ability overall to understand. And they’re not the same thing at all. In fact, I’m seeing that very specifically with my youngest son right now. So as one of the repercussions of chemotherapy and some of the treatment he’s receiving is actually, it’s shown to affect processing speed. And so we’ve had the opportunity to get some testing done with our hospital as part of his treatment plan, which I love that they like proactively do that. It’s amazing. And so his ability to actually solve problems. Is unchanged. But his ability to process has actually been decreased quite a bit. And so just sort of knowing that is not like, well, why can’t you just be faster? Like, you’re dumb. Like, no, it’s just going to take a little bit longer for right now, as his brain, you know, rewires and works through that problem. And so if I didn’t understand that the speed at which you can answer is not, you know, necessarily correlated with your understanding, I might be, much more concerned. But as it is, I understand he just needs a little more time to get there. And that’s fine.

Kate Snow: Absolutely. And different kids have different sort of like internal set points for their processing time. Some kids are just tend to be slower processors than others. And that’s just how, how God made them. And so it’s okay for us to just give them a little more time. That’s one of the beauties of homeschooling is that they’re in a place where you can take the time where they don’t have to be trying to compete with 25 other kids shouting out an answer or whatever the case is.

Amy Sloan: Exactly. Yeah, I’m so thankful for homeschooling for many reasons. But that one for now for sure. Um, well, one of the things I have loved about your math with confidence curriculum is how you really emphasize mastery of a concept in a new unit. You know, we’re kind of focusing on one particular thing and we go over and over it and make sure the student understands the new concept. But you’re also regularly bringing in review from previous lessons. So, and then once you get to the point where you’re like, I can’t do it, I can’t solve it, I can’t do it. You know, if you’re not a master at that level, then you’re not a master at that level. You’re not a master at that level. You’re not a master at that level. You’re not a master at that level. So, So, and they kind of cycle through like, oh, what are we reviewing in this week’s lesson? So can you kind of explain a little bit about the brain science of how spaced review helps kids remember what they’ve learned?

Kate Snow: Certainly. I think it’s one of the most fascinating concepts in education. So I love to talk about spaced review because it’s so effective. So I think we tend to think of our memories as kind of like a storage unit where everything’s like neatly boxed on a shelf and we can just go around and like pick out the thing we need. So if I need to subtract fractions, I just like pick out subtract fractions. It’s right there, right? But it turns like what brain science teaches, you know, I am not a brain scientist. So anybody who’s really a brain scientist, please forgive me for the details I get wrong or how crude my metaphor is. But the way I understand it is that it’s more like. All those boxes are in the storage closet, but it’s also very important to remember the path to get to the box and that every time we go get the box, we strengthen that path or say it’s in a field where, you know, we’re in a forest. We’re beating our way through the bushes. We’re making that path just a little firmer and a little firmer and our brain and how often we do that also affects whether or not our brain sort of keeps that information available to us. And so. So when we learn something, our brain isn’t sure whether or not it’s worth keeping yet. You know, is this like the code that I had to use to get my past, you know, get into my bank online or something? Or is this like fundamental information like this is my social security number? I need to know it. And so the more times we go back to it and the frequency with which we go back to it affects whether or not our brain decides to keep it or not. If it doesn’t, if we don’t go back and find that box again, our brain, it’s kind of like those. Planners on TV shows, home organization, TV shows with like, you know, if you’re not sure, put it in a box, put a label on two years. If you didn’t find it, if you didn’t need it, throw it away. You don’t even need what’s in that box or brain kind of does that with information. Like you never recalled it. So out it goes. But then the thing that’s, I think, also very interesting about spaced review is that you need to start by reviewing information pretty close together. Like if you learned how to subtract fractions last week, it’s really helpful to get back to it after a couple of days. And, but then. It can be a little longer, a couple of weeks and then maybe a few more weeks and then even a couple of months. But every time you go back to it, you’re strengthening that connection. And so I actually like make a spreadsheet for math with confidence for like two days, four days, two weeks, four weeks, six weeks. And like I use that to plan the review so that we’re cycling back to things in a longer and longer time frame because that gives the brain even a chance to start to forget. And then you come back. Hopefully this is the good. This is the. The magic of it. And also the part that sometimes is a curriculum, right? I’m like, oh, am I right there? I think right there, you know, we’re going to come back to her just as the brain is starting to be a little bit like, yeah, maybe we don’t need that. But then you go back to it and the brain says, oh, okay, this is important. I’m keeping it and then strengthens that connection of how to find it. And okay, we’re holding on to this information. So this box of China, you know, we need this one. And so, yeah, so it’s something you can use in any subject. So if you really want your child to learn, I mean, learning poetry, learning psalms, learning dates in history, it’s wonderful to review like every day or every couple of days at the beginning. But then once your child has it mastered to kind of gradually space it out over the course of days, then weeks, then months to come back to it and refresh it.

Amy Sloan: That makes so much sense. And it also is bringing some clarity to my own teaching with Isaac, where I’ll be like, I know, like we have reviewed. Yeah. Like a certain topic, you know, with maybe mixed fractions or something like that. And I know that he understands it. He’s done it multiple, multiple times, but it’s always that like, it’s been a few weeks and he like sees it again. And he’s like, wait, wait, what do I do with this again? I know, you know it, but that’s good. Cause then I start to remind him. He’s like, oh yeah, now I remember. And then he can go through.

Kate Snow: So it’s just that like getting that brain to that pain point, almost about to forget, but rewiring, like getting that pathway really solid. And it can be really hard as a homeschool parent because you’re like, I just taught this to you. We spent weeks on this, right? Like it’s so frustrating or so like, what happened? This curriculum isn’t working, but this is just naturally how like our brains work. And so, and to know that that moment where they’re about to forget, like you’re actually like the child is going to remember even better because it was about to go. Like that actually strengthens it. If you did it every single day, you would keep it, but they would never have that space to start to forget it. And, and so it actually helps to space it out for the long-term review.

Amy Sloan: Okay. We need to like do fan fiction of the Inside Out movies, but related to math, math memories. Okay. So we’ve been talking a lot, very positively about, you know, kids are not necessarily like most children are able to learn math, all these things. And, those are all true things, but sometimes a parent can get to a point when they realize, oh no, my kid is really behind in math. You know, maybe the child has been pulled from school and has been struggling and they’re like, how do I even like catch up? What is behind grade level? Like, what do I do? Or maybe it’s been an issue where that’s been not something that’s been a strength of the homeschool. And so it gets to the point where we’re like, oh dear, my kid is behind. How can a parent handle that? Like what’s a step forward? And I guess there would be sort of like maybe that sense of, I think my kid’s behind, like maybe not quite to grade level. And then maybe a more serious, like, no, my kid really is not where they need to be. Yeah.

Kate Snow: So I think the first step is to not panic. Very, very important. And to think about like the long-term goal, as opposed to the short-term place where you’re at. Like I said before, in most states, getting through Algebra 2 is the graduation requirement and that’s sufficient for application to most colleges. And so if that’s your senior year of high school, just working back, that means Algebra 2, Geometry, Algebra 1, Pre-Algebra. You can start Pre-Algebra your freshman year of high school, still do all four of those classes in sequence and be so good. So if you’re working, a lot of times, you know, I work mostly with elementary. Parents of elementary school-aged kids. And so when I see somebody freaking out about their second grader, I’m just like, oh, it’s so fine. It is so fine. Of time. You know? And really to be ready for like a Pre-Algebra program, really getting through most homeschool math books, like sixth grade, gets you ready for that. So there’s a couple of years in there that’s just, there’s a lot of mush, you know, like what exactly programs cover, exactly what they’re called. But you don’t have to, you know. But you don’t have to, you know. But you don’t have to, you know. But you don’t have to, you know, there’s, there’s some time. So first, taking a deep breath, not panicking, just knowing that there’s plenty of time to do this. And so then it’s a matter of, I think, really take a second to think why. You know, you mentioned several distinct possibilities for how people get behind. A child was just kind of lost at school and just kind of moving along with the class. There’s been things going on in a family. And so math just hasn’t gotten consistent, you know, consistent teaching happening for a while. There’s lots of reasons, of course, why it can, you know, or why it can not be being taught consistently. But it could also be that the child is really struggling with it. We’ve been teaching math every day and like, we’re way behind and she’s not getting it. And so taking a step, step back to think about what’s the problem is also, of course, really important for figuring out what the solution is. You know, if it’s a matter of just, oh, we need to increase our consistency. And if we keep going, we’re going to be fine. fine, great. Or if it’s like, ooh, we’ve been working really hard and she is not getting it, that might be time to talk to your pediatrician about getting more of an evaluation for learning disabilities. And then sometimes it’s just a, oh boy, like, yeah, we haven’t been doing it consistently, but we really need to get on the ball now. How do we move forward? That’s where I generally recommend that people think about doing kind of a condensed version of the grades starting back at the beginning and figuring out where you need to go. And so really focusing first on like whole numbers. Let’s learn to add, subtract, multiply, and divide whole numbers. Okay. Then fractions, fractions, decimals, percents. Let’s learn how to add, subtract, multiply, and divide them, see how they connect to each other, and then get ready for like a pre-algebra program. But so to streamline, you know, don’t go, if you have a 10-year-old who’s real far behind, you might need to go back to some addition for six weeks. You do not have to go back and do a full first grade curriculum, you know, like, and also know that a 10-year-old is going to be thinking more abstractly than a first grader is going to be making connections. You know, this will go faster than if you were with, starting with a six-year-old. But, but you may need to go back and really backfill some things. And so to figure out, just focus on those core concepts and move forward is my main suggestion if you’re in that place.

Amy Sloan: I love that. Okay. So number one, don’t panic. Very much. Number two, for most children, you have time to kind of catch up or get back on track. Three, really ask why are we behind? Is this an actual learning challenge that we’re facing, or is this a consistency issue? And then that will kind of then streamline your decisions from there. And then I think that’s really encouraging to hear that if it is a matter of like, we have some real gaps in our learning, you don’t have to go back and do an entire first grade and an entire second grade kind of curriculum, because that could be a big problem. Cause that could feel overwhelming at the same time, go back and make sure you haven’t missed any of those fundamental things. Cause that’s all going to kind of cumulatively impact later on.

Kate Snow: Yeah. I mean, even things, yeah. So many simple things that seem like multiplication in third grade, like nobody really, like, I can’t remember the last time I did two digit times, two digit multiplication by hand in my everyday life. Right. But there’s a lot of principles in there that then do really apply to fractions, to decimals, to algebra, where having those, basics do make a difference.

Amy Sloan: Oh yeah, for sure. Well, as we’re talking and thinking about maybe older children in particular, I think we all are wanting to encourage our children in independence and having them take more ownership of their learning. That’s such a great thing to be transitioning, especially like in those middle school years. I really feel like those are some kind of pivotal years to start training them for independence. But sometimes we get a little ahead of ourselves because we’ve got a lot of things going on. And I think that’s a really, really important thing to be thinking about. And I think that’s a really, really important thing to be thinking about. And I think that’s a really, really important thing to be thinking about. And I think that’s a lot of kids or a lot like a side business or like whatever. And we’re like, here, great. You’re old enough. Go do your math. Go forth and conquer. Yeah. I have a hundred percent. I will just like confess right now. I’ve done that, especially with algebra. I’m like, okay, you can like, you’re old enough. Just go do your algebra. It’ll be fine. So how do we encourage the independence without leaving our older kids completely on their own devices?

Kate Snow: It’s such a good question. And yes, so this is definitely for middle school and beyond, you know, I think it’s a really, really important thing to be thinking about. And I think that’s I really believe that most elementary school students really need like a teacher who is in it with them most days, who is really keeping them on track. Very few kids are mature enough to be very independent at all until they’re getting towards sixth, seventh grade. So once you’re hitting that point and ready for that, and your child’s demonstrating that kind of maturity, I think there’s kind of two main components, two ways I think about it. One is really teaching them the study skills they need to be able to do that before you release them. Two, more greater independence. And then second, really providing some excellent accountability for the follow through. And so when I talk about study skills, I’m thinking about things like teaching your child how to read math, that we read it differently than a story, that we read every word, we make sure we understand every word. Great mathematicians might have to read their book three times before they understand what’s going on. You know, I was in my college math classes, I would sometimes have five pages of a book, and I would have to read it three times before they understand what’s going on. You know, I was in my college math classes, I would sometimes have five pages to read in my math text, and they would take me like three hours to work through the examples and really understand what on earth was happening. So learning how to read math, learning how to set up paper, if you’re using a textbook, learning how to set up your assignments, to show your work neatly, to use an answer key, like a lot of children are ready to use an answer key to check their own work. But then to really be teaching them, the point is that you learn the math. Not that this assignment is completed. I just had a very fun, it’s an aside, I just was helping a friend’s high school junior figure out what was going so wrong for him in algebra too. And it turned out that his teacher at the school he goes to was giving them the answer keys. And he would just write the answers under each problem. That doesn’t help at all, does it? I’m like, oh, and so you’re not learning it, are you, buddy? So that’s where that accountability piece comes in, right? So to me, but to teach those study skills, sometimes I think we really overestimate what kids already know how to do in terms of these kinds of study skills, and how very explicit they need to be, you know, that we need to be in teaching them to really model them, describe what we’re doing, to think aloud, like, okay, I’m on assignment 6.1. So I’m going to find assignment 6.1, you know, really talk that through, to equip them. Otherwise, they’re just kind of left to go do it on their own. And to emphasize that the point is to learn it. So what do you do if you have a question? What do you do if it’s not making sense? You go back and read the examples, you ask questions, you write a note, that it’s not just about somehow making it through the problems. And then I’ve had that kid who’s just like,

Amy Sloan: I’ll be like, Oh, did you do your work today? Yeah, I did it. And then I go back to look and I’m like, well, you skipped like half the questions. Like, yeah, but I didn’t know how to do them. Yeah. Okay.

Kate Snow: It was for you to learn this material. Right. It’s like, I just don’t need a stack of completed worksheets. That’s not like we’re not produced, we’re not a worksheet farm, you know, where our output is worksheets. Like, no, no, no, the learning, the learning is what we’re doing. Actually understanding the material. And so that’s where that accountability comes in. So making sure that, you know, you’re looking at your child’s work very regularly at the beginning to make sure that they’re actually doing it and asking lots of questions. You know, how do you do it? How do you do it? How do you do it? How do you know that this is the right error? Like, tell me about this concept. You explain it to me, be the teacher. How do you know? Like, or compare and contrast this, like how is adding decimals like adding fractions? How are they different? And being a resource, it’s very important as children get more independent that they have a resource for those questions. And so that you’re available to answer those questions regularly, so they don’t just get in a hole of not understanding, you know, if they’re just floundering forward, that gets real ugly real fast. And even the most responsible kids as they get into those upper grades, like high school level math courses, they will need somebody to ask questions. And so I really do encourage parents to make sure either you’re if to make sure that you have the math skills to at least be able to go into the book and figure out what’s going on. You know, you don’t have to work through every assignment with them. But if you don’t feel comfortable going into that algebra book and reading it and feeling like, oh, okay, I see what they’re teaching here. I understand I like the box that holds algebra, it’s the path is not very well worn, but it will come back when I have this book in front of me, you know, if you don’t have that, it’s very important that your student have somebody, if it’s an older sibling, if it’s your spouse, if it’s an aunt or uncle, or a paid tutor or a co op class, but somewhere there needs to be somebody who can say like, okay, here’s why we’re factoring the polynomials. You know, and provide that support because otherwise it can be very, you know, the math gets hard. It’s very abstract. And so having that support is really important.

Amy Sloan: I think that is one of the nice things about technology now, right? Like I have helped one of my cousins who’s actually in high school now, but she’s my first cousin, I’ve done like little video calls, or she’s like, I don’t understand this, this math problem. I’ll be like, okay, let me show you how to how to work this. And then with my own children, you know, it’s appropriate certain certain times, outsource classes, sometimes not because I don’t like understand or remember the algebra or geometry or precalculus or whatever. But because you know what, you’re gonna listen to that other person more peacefully than you listen to me.

Kate Snow: That is also a factor. All everybody’s still liking each other at the end of this process.

Amy Sloan: Okay, well, while we’re still talking about older students, you know, I know that we do a lot of handouts. We’re going to talk about math and math and math and math and math and math and math and math and games and things like that. Totally Isaac’s favorite part of his math day. But what about older students? Are they too old for math games? Is that a waste of time?

Kate Snow: Definitely not a waste of time. But I think it’s definitely one where kids personalities come to the fore. Yeah, so I’m pilot testing sixth grade math with confidence right now. And it’s been so interesting to see how just the kids are starting to diverge and how they feel about math games. You know, kids who have loved math games, all the way like they want to be more independent. They want to be studying math a little bit more separately from their parents. And so there’s a small group of kids who are just like, no, no, no, like, I don’t want to do math games. And then there’s some kids who are still like, I want all the math games. So it’s been interesting working that out. So they’re still included in six, they will be included in sixth grade math with confidence when that comes out in two years. But there, there’ll be less, you know, and because if kids are ready for more thinking, more pen and paper thinking, but also you just sometimes need a math game. Even in the midst of algebra, it’s good to just, you know, beat your mom at tic-tac-toe with very finding the variables that match or, you know, and that’s been really fun for me, actually, as we get into more complex math and sixth grade math with confidence to be figuring out like, huh, what can we do with exponents? Like, what is how do we make a game out of dividing decimals? You know, so I, I don’t think there’s ever, no one’s ever too old, but it’s also okay. If, you know, kids are wanting to be more independent and, you know, whenever, if so, for people who use math with confidence, there are a lot of games. And I always say like, you know, if you don’t have time to play the game or your child doesn’t want to, like, it’s not about the game, it’s about the learning, right? So just figure out from the game board, like, I bet you can make five problems from, or practice problems with things on the game board. The point is like, practice the skill, learn the skill with some coaching, with your parent really still involved in watching you and hanging out with you. So pick those. You can just do those as practice problems together, and then the child can move on if the game, if you’re just not feeling it that day for some reason.

Amy Sloan: Yeah. I think that’s helpful because I think a lot of times with really any curriculum, not just math, like moms want so much to do it right. And they are, have such a good desire to, to do this thing well, like this is our calling. This is our job. We’re like, this is important that we give our children a good education. And that’s a wonderful goal. But sometimes we forget that we’re actually like the teacher and the curriculum is a tool. If something isn’t the right thing that we need to do that day, we actually have the freedom to set that problem aside, set that game aside, you know, combine those activities and that’s okay. You’re not doing anything wrong. I’m sure you would agree as a curriculum writer, like you are providing opportunities. You’re just wanting to make sure every child and every parent has enough opportunities to meet lots of different ways kids learn, but you’re not expecting every single child to have enough opportunities.

Kate Snow: Exactly. So I pilot test thoroughly. I get feedback from about 150, 200 families. So I learn a lot through that process and I try to, you know, I adjust it before I put out the final version. But the range of people’s experiences within that pilot test group even vary so much. I’m so aware of the fact that I do not know your individual child. You know, you know your individual child. And so I’m kind of aiming to make sure there’s, like you said, opportunities. As my pilot testers say, well, we can always cut, but it’s a lot harder to add. And so I try to make sure that if in doubt, if I think some kids are really going to need something, it’s in there. But to know that, hey, if your kid’s getting this or, you know, you can just like go through this quickly. You’re going to be like, oh, no, we got that. We’re skipping that. That that’s all perfectly fine. And that, you know, from watching your child, again, it just comes back to this. What’s our goal? Actual learning. If the actual learning is happening, then we are in great shape, whatever path we take to get there.

Amy Sloan: Yeah. Well, what about the parent who maybe is like, this is great, but you don’t understand. Like I never did well in math. I don’t even know if I remember anything. You’re talking about algebra. I’m not even sure I remember fractions, you know, and it just feels really, um, like, I don’t know, like a little nervous, just not very comfortable with their own math. Yeah. Like what encouragement or advice would you give to that parent?

Kate Snow: Well, the first I would say is have that growth mindset that believe that you are capable of learning because you really are really, if you are managing all the things required to like homeschool your children, you are, you have a lot of capability and I think you can learn math. You probably like a lot of people had a really terrible math education. Um, you know, math has often not been taught very well. Um, in our country. And so if you know, if you didn’t get a very solid foundation, it doesn’t mean you can’t, or if it was always hard for you when you were in school, it does not mean that it has to always be hard for you or that you’re not capable of learning it. Um, but then along with that, I say, then make sure you’re ready to learn with your child. Um, especially in those early years where, you know, make sure like you’re really, oh, I’m really getting this, like, you know, read the book, study the diagrams, turn your brain on and make sure you’re just really thinking as you go. Through, especially the early years, because you’ll start in a place where you’re probably more comfortable and you’ll grow right along with your child. Um, so like right now in sixth grade, like I said, the pilot testing sixth grade math with confidence right now, and we’re doing division of fractions, which is probably one of the most poorly understood concepts in the elementary to middle school, um, math curriculum. And it’s so fun to see so many of the pilot moms saying like, oh, I get this now that’s multiplying by a reciprocal thing. I, I, now I see why we do it. I had no clue before. Um, you know, and so to like, to enjoy the aha moments along with your child, cause you’ll probably have some, and you might find that you like math a lot better than you thought you did.

Amy Sloan: I love that. And also your kid will probably be excited if you’re like, oh, you don’t like coming with a, with a joyful attitude. Like, I don’t remember this. Can you explain this to me? You know, oh, kids love that to be able to tell mom. Oh. Let me, I, I got this mom. Let me explain this to you.

Kate Snow: Absolutely. And to have that exploratory attitude, right? Like we’re trying this, we’re figuring it out because that’s the attitude you were a child to have to math too, right? Like I can figure this out. I might not get it at first, but that’s okay. Like, I’m going to stick with it. I’m going to keep, you know, keep exploring it and I’m trying to understand it and I’ll get it.

Amy Sloan: Yeah. Okay. I have to, I have to take a quick rabbit trail before I move to the next question because I like have a distinct memory of when we got to the whole. Like invert and multiply thing when I was whatever grade I was when I was learning that. And I was like, no, mom, like, you got to tell me why this works. Like, I don’t, I don’t believe it. You can’t just tell me to invert and multiply. That makes no sense. And so she thankfully had, you know, this, this is before the internet, like call someone on the actual phone. She happened to know, um, uh, a math curriculum writer. And so she called him and he was just like, why do we invert and multiply, you know, he explained it to her and she explained it to me and I was like, okay, now I know. Now I believe you, but I still remember just the joy of like the well-chosen one and thinking about that. And before I even had a, had a blog, I recruited a video about explaining, inverting and multiplying. That’s great.

Kate Snow: Oh, I love it. They use such a passion for it. That’s awesome.

Amy Sloan: Such a nerd, such a nerd. And then the sad thing is my kids don’t care. They’re like, I don’t know. I just want to invert and multiply. I’m like, don’t you want to know why it works? They’re like, no.

Kate Snow: And some kids don’t want to care and that’s okay. You know? But. But you should try to make them understand a little.

Amy Sloan: Yeah. Just a little bit.

Kate Snow: Which I’m sure you did. A little bit. Yeah.

Amy Sloan: Like you will understand. Yeah. Well-chosen ones are important. Well, this was a question that came from a mom in my online homeschool community, Made to Homeschool. And she asked, if your child seems to be really getting it and they’re flying through lessons, should I keep doing one thing at a time in the order it is taught or can I skip through?

Kate Snow: Hmm. Well, this kind of goes to what we were talking about, right? That most curriculums. Have more than you need, um, that they’re giving you an array of options. And, um, if you find your child is learning well without doing every single exercise or every single lesson, or if you’re combining lessons, that’s completely fine. Um, you just have to keep paying attention. You know, you might, if sometimes if you combine too much, it’s easy to assume our kids know things. I guess that’s really what I say. Like sometimes they just seem so like angelic, like, oh yes, I totally get it. Yeah. And then, you know, you get three lessons down the road and you’re like, oh, you don’t know this now. So try to make them prove that they know it before you do that. That’d really be the best thing in that moment. Be like, okay, like do this or explain this to me. Tell me why it works. Um, but then if you do get a little bit ahead further into the program, you’re like, Ooh, that no. Okay. We’re, we’re going to just kind of take a little backtrack and then we’ll come back to this. Um, that just keep paying attention again. Does my child know it? Are they learning? Are they. Oh, if we miss something, we can just go back. It’s not the end of the world.

Amy Sloan: Yeah. And I found too, like, instead of just like skipping a whole thing, like, okay, well show me, you say you understand this. So just show me that problem really quickly and you can kind of see if they can just sort of do it super easily. And they’re like, yeah, no, literally I can just tell you the answer without even having to write anything down. I just get this. Then that’s one thing. But if they’re like really having to work on it, maybe making some careless errors, that’s where you’re like, okay, well you did such a great job. Let’s do a couple more practice. Uh-huh. Right.

Kate Snow: Exactly. And sometimes I think one thing I’ve really found in the process of pilot testing is that different kids are able to absorb different amounts of information in one sitting, but some kids really need like a little breather. Like they can really just take like one little part of a concept. They need a breather. Then they get ready for the next part. And some kids are like, they see that first part of the concept, like, Ooh, let’s go. Like, where’s it going from here? Um, and so that’s also, if you’re using a program. Yeah. Yeah. If you’re using a program that’s very incremental, you may just find like, Hey, we’re ready to, like, we did this increment today. We don’t even need to do the practice page because we’re ready to combine it with the next one that takes it that step further. Um, and that’s really just a matter of, yeah, like how much kids are able to take in, in one sitting.

Amy Sloan: Yeah. Curriculum is the tool. You are the teacher, right?

Kate Snow: And you’re teaching the real kid in front of you. Yes.

Amy Sloan: Not the generic ideal child. Kate, this has been absolutely delightful. I really appreciate you. And all of the incredible. Resources you give us in the homeschool community for math, but here at the end, before I close, I want to ask you the questions I ask all my guests. And so the first is just, what are you reading lately?

Kate Snow: So I just finished, tell me everything by Elizabeth Strout. It’s in the Olive Kittredge series. Um, and it’s just this wonderful series about kind of a community in Maine. And she looks at different, different protagonists, uh, in the different books and then kind of pulls them all together in this book, which I really enjoyed. Just a lovely kind of slow, thoughtful book for the winter, uh, here in Michigan and then very cozy. Yes. And then I’m also in a, what we call it, the long book book club where we read one long book a year, like that we wouldn’t necessarily tackle otherwise. Um, and so we’re reading Moby Dick this year. And so we, we break it into thirds and we basically meet, you know, to discuss each third of it over the course of the year. And so I’d taken a little breather after our last session, but now I’m getting ready to. We’re brought to meet the whale, I think. So I’m excited to get back to it and talk about it with those ladies in January.

Amy Sloan: I’m excited about that. I have done, my book club generally takes two months in the summer. So generally we read like a couple books a month, but in the summer we take something longer and take two months for it. And that has been helpful to attack some of those, those longer books, but we haven’t done Moby Dick. I did. I did recommend that one to my teen daughter who is rapidly coming to the end of all the. Lists I create for her just so, you know, that one has a lot to say about fish.

Kate Snow: A lot so much about fish, but I’m loving it. I don’t know. I knew nothing about the whaling industry and how important it was in American history. So it feels like I’m, I feel like I’m learning a lot and it’s a very strange book too. Yeah, I love chapters are in different formats. Like there’ll be like a play or like different perspectives. Yeah. It’s way weirder than I expected it to be, which I’m really enjoying.

Amy Sloan: Yeah. I love that. All right. Final question. And I’m editing this one a little bit for you from the question I normally would ask. And this is just, what is your best tip for turning around a math lesson that seems to be going all wrong?

Kate Snow: So first I do my usual checklist of things that could be the problem, which are hungry, thirsty, need the bathroom, tired, sick. So first we roll out those. And. Next up would be to say, let’s back up the train to something more concrete. So whatever we’re doing, let’s make it more concrete with either with hands-on manipulatives, with a real life situation, something that applies to your life. Let’s make, because usually a problem, often the problem in math is that something has gotten too abstract and the child’s just a little bit lost. It’s like, what is happening here? I do not get it. These are just numbers on a page all of a sudden. So to back it up to something real. And after that, I’d usually recommend calling it a day or at least calling it a lesson, because most, you know, if this is kind of an out of the ordinary kind of thing for your kid, if this is just, this day is going, this lesson is going haywire, often no more good can be done in that situation. And it’s okay to just stay like, we’re going to try it again this afternoon, or we’re going to try it again tomorrow. Um, and often just that little pause is enough just to reset the emotions, take everybody’s emotional temperature down. And. Yeah. Maybe moms needs it too. Maybe moms too. That’s always possible.

Amy Sloan: Have a cup of coffee, have a piece of chocolate.

Kate Snow: Exactly. And just, you know, some days just aren’t meant for fractions and that’s okay.

Amy Sloan: I will say too, I have found that sometimes if I just take the pencil, that is another thing that’s really helpful. Like sometimes it’s just like the one too many things where I’m having to like think and I’m having to process and I’m having to read and I’m having to write all at the same time. And it’s just too much. And sometimes. If I just take the scribe duties and I say, okay, look, you just tell me what to write. You know, especially with like younger kids or kids who still struggle with the fine motor skills, like then it’s like, okay, well now suddenly the math is just flowing. It was just like something, it was getting stuck in the pencil.

Kate Snow: The stamina or the, yeah, absolutely. Yes.

Amy Sloan: Well, Kate, thank you so very much. Please tell people where they can find you all around the internet.

Kate Snow: So my publisher is Well-Trained Mind Press. So you can find my books at WellTrainedMind.com or at Amazon. I write at Kate’sHomeschoolMath.com. And then if you use Math with Confidence, I also have a very active and fun Facebook group that I highly recommend. So if you’re looking for support with Math with Confidence, just search for the Math with Confidence community on Facebook. And there’s something like 10,000 moms on there now, mostly moms, who are just, you know, helped each other troubleshoot, celebrate successes and figure and enjoy math with confidence.

Amy Sloan: There are so many amazing resources, too, that moms have like put together, like, oh, here, I’ve collated this whole thing, or, oh, here’s this collection of books that I’ve done. So it’s a great resource for sure. It is.

Kate Snow: I really appreciate all of it. It’s such a wonderful, collaborative and positive community. I just such a happy corner of the internet. I just, I only dip in occasionally because I’m still frantically writing sixth grade math with confidence. But I do really enjoy it. Oh, and I should also say, so if… We’re talking about sixth grade math with confidence here. But fifth grade math with confidence will be coming out this spring or summer in June 2024. And then sixth grade will come out… 2025. Sorry, it’ll be 2025. Oh, thank you. Oh, boy. That, good catch. Fifth grade will be coming out in June of 2025. And then sixth grade will be coming out in June of 2026. And that will be the final volume in the Math with Confidence series. So I’m excited to wrap it up and help kids get ready to move on. To pre-algebra, algebra, and beyond.

Amy Sloan: I know. Well, we’ll have to save our conversation for like middle school math for maybe in another year. We’ll bring you back.

Kate Snow: I’m getting a lot of questions about that in my pilot test group. So it’s definitely fine. I’ll definitely have some more resources for folks and some recommendations at that point.

Amy Sloan: Well, I will have links to all those things you mentioned in the show notes for this episode at humilityanddoxology.com. I would love it if you are watching this or listening. If you would send this episode to me, I would love it. If you would send this episode to a friend that you think might need a little bit of encouragement or help for homeschooling math. And please leave a rating and review for the podcast wherever you’re listening. It helps other homeschool parents find this encouragement. And Kate, I always enjoy speaking with you and chatting with you. And I hope to do so again.

Kate Snow: Oh, I do too, Amy. Thank you so much for having me on. This was just such a pleasure.