Joe Sutphin and Kevan Chandler on Friendship, Faith, and Creativity

It was a joy to chat recently with authors Kevan Chandler (author of We Carry Kevan) and Joe Sutphin (illustrator of Little Pilgrim’s Progress and Tumbleweed Thompson)! We discussed their creative journeys, personal growth, and the pursuit of calling in the world of writing. From overcoming challenges to embracing faith, creativity, and the unpredictable paths of life, both Kevan and Joe share some valuable lessons God has taught them over the years.

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Getting to Know Kevan Chandler and Joe Sutphin

Kevan Chandler and Joe Sutphin share a deep love for creativity, family, and faith, each shaped by unique life experiences.

Kevan grew up in North Carolina with two older siblings, including his sister, who, like him, has spinal muscular atrophy. Their home was filled with imagination and creative problem-solving, fostering a love for storytelling and community. His journey with Jesus became personal at age six when his father introduced Him not as a concept but as a companion for eternity. That realization transformed his faith, giving him confidence that he was never alone, no matter where life took him.

Joe Sutphin, an artist from a long line of creatives, also grew up in a Christian home. His faith was shaped through Sunday school and youth group but truly became his own when he stepped into adulthood. No longer surrounded by structured church activities, he had to wrestle with how his beliefs influenced his interactions with others. Through real-life experiences, he learned to live out his faith in tangible ways, asking himself how he could love and serve the people around him. Now a husband, father, and grandfather, Joe continues to reflect on how faith shapes daily life.

The Books and Illustrators That Shaped Joe Sutphin’s Childhood

Joe Sutphin’s love for storytelling and illustration began long before he ever considered himself a reader. As a child, he was drawn to books for their artwork rather than their words, gravitating toward illustrators like Arnold Lobel, best known for Frog and Toad and Owl at Home. He still treasures his childhood copy of Owl at Home, along with a recording of Lobel reading it. Another influential book was The Do Something Day by Joe Lasker, which captivated him with its artwork, particularly a scene depicting a costume shop—an image that fascinated him as a child from a family that didn’t celebrate Halloween. Since reading didn’t come easily, Joe also found inspiration through audio storytelling, particularly cassette tapes and book-and-record sets. He fondly remembers listening to dramatized adaptations of Tom Sawyer and spending hours drawing maps of underground caves inspired by the stories. Animated films like The Secret of NIMH also sparked his imagination, nurturing his love for visual storytelling.

Kevan Chandler’s Early Love for Stories and Read-Alouds

For Kevan Chandler, storytelling was a deeply relational experience from the beginning. As the youngest in his family, he was often read to by his older sister, who made a deal with him—she would read to him during meals as long as he kept eating. This led to countless hours of shared stories, shaping his love for literature and adventure. Some of the most formative books of his childhood included The Chronicles of Narnia, The Folk of the Faraway Tree, Peter Pan, and Winnie the Pooh, which were read aloud by his sister and mother. These timeless classics became ingrained in him, forming the foundation for his love of narrative. Later, when his sister was in college, she introduced him to The Princess Bride and intended to read it aloud—until she fell ill, prompting Kevan to take over reading for her. This experience marked a shift, deepening his appreciation for storytelling and its power to strengthen relationships. Throughout his life, Peter Pan remained a favorite, a story he returned to repeatedly, finding new layers of meaning in its timeless wonder.

Kevan Chandler’s Journey into Writing

Kevan Chandler’s love for storytelling began in childhood through imaginative play with his sister, where they created make-believe worlds, sometimes sketching them out but often just acting them out in the backyard. By middle school, he started writing down his own ideas, and in high school and college, his creativity found an outlet through songwriting. Though he was supposed to be writing academic papers, he was often crafting songs and short stories instead. It wasn’t until after college that he made a conscious decision to pursue writing seriously. A pivotal moment came when a friend gave him The Thirteen and a Half Lives of Captain Blue Bear, a whimsical, fully illustrated novel by a German cartoonist. While reading it, Kevan had a realization—if such an outlandish story could find an audience, then perhaps his own ideas had a place in the world too. That revelation propelled him into writing and self-publishing novels, ultimately shaping his career as an author.

The Magic of Anthropomorphic Storytelling in Joe Sutphin’s Illustrations

Joe Sutphin’s love for illustrating animals and nature stems from both artistic and storytelling freedom. He finds inspiration in classic illustrators like Garth Williams, Bill Peet, and Wallace Tripp, as well as films like The Secret of NIMH. While drawing human figures comes with rigid expectations and the potential for bias in how characters are perceived, animals offer a universal appeal. By depicting mice, rabbits, and foxes as protagonists, he creates characters that transcend human divisions—allowing any child to relate to their struggles and triumphs. This approach removes barriers that might otherwise distance young readers, making it easier for them to connect with themes of bravery, vulnerability, and perseverance in ways that feel natural and immersive.

Beyond aesthetics, Joe believes anthropomorphic storytelling taps into something deeply human. Animals, with their expressive faces and relatable struggles, evoke strong emotions in readers. He compares it to nature documentaries—where audiences instinctively root for the gazelle escaping a predator. In books, this connection allows young readers to experience the tension and triumph of a story in a way that feels adventurous rather than distressing. By stripping away the human form, Joe’s illustrations paradoxically highlight the most essential aspects of humanity—courage, kindness, and the pursuit of goodness—making his stories both timeless and deeply meaningful.

King’s Cadets: A Story of Friendship, Adventure, and Faith

The new book King’s Cadets by Joe Sutphin and Kevan Chandler is inspired by the brothers from Little Pilgrim’s Progress, offering young readers an engaging and beautifully illustrated adventure. In a recent conversation, the authors shared how their friendship and creative collaboration shaped the book’s development.

Kevan was immediately drawn to the idea when Joe approached him with it. Having admired Joe’s illustrations for years, he saw an opportunity to explore storytelling in a fresh way. Their long-standing friendship, filled with creative exchanges and shared experiences, made this project a natural fit. Joe had been deeply invested in reimagining Little Pilgrim’s Progress visually and found himself wanting to expand on the untold stories of its characters—especially Christiana’s younger brothers, Matthew, James, and Joseph.

With King’s Cadets, the authors aimed to create a story that younger children could enjoy while maintaining the artistic richness that would appeal to older siblings. The book balances lighthearted adventure with deeper themes of bravery and faith, much like the classic tales they both grew up with.

What makes this book special is not only its connection to Little Pilgrim’s Progress but also the personal bond between its creators. Kevan and Joe found encouragement in their friendship during difficult seasons, and their collaboration reflects the joy of working alongside someone you deeply respect. This heartwarming backstory adds another layer of meaning to King’s Cadets, making it more than just a book—it’s a testament to creativity, companionship, and a shared love for storytelling.

Kevan Chandler shared that writing can often be an isolating endeavor, and he had prayed for opportunities to collaborate with others. He didn’t realize at first that King’s Cadets was an answer to that prayer, as it became his first project where he worked closely with a friend. Unlike traditional publishing experiences—where illustrators are simply handed a manuscript or writers work alone with an editor—Kevan and Joe developed the story together through in-person meetings, Zoom calls, and constant back-and-forth feedback.

What made their collaboration special was their mutual admiration for each other’s work. Kevan loved seeing Joe’s illustrations bring the story to life, and Joe found excitement in Kevan’s writing. Their creative process wasn’t just about finishing the book—it was about celebrating every step of the journey. Kevan believes this daily encouragement not only made the process more enjoyable but also strengthened the final product, as they weren’t working in isolation but continually inspiring one another.

Joe Sutphin highlights the importance of fostering creativity in a way that feels natural and enjoyable rather than structured and pressured. His emphasis on perspective rather than a rigid formula is refreshing, especially for homeschooling parents who might feel overwhelmed by comparison or expectations.

He emphasizes the value of letting kids chase wonder, avoiding excessive structure, and limiting screen time in favor of real-world exploration.

Encouragement for Families Facing Challenges and How Communities Can Step In

In a heartfelt conversation about disability, inclusion, and friendship, Kevan Chandler shared powerful advice for families navigating significant challenges, whether long-term or short-term. As someone who has faced physical disabilities himself, Kevan emphasized the importance of vulnerability in building deeper, more meaningful relationships. He encouraged families not to close themselves off, even though it’s tempting to do so out of fear of judgment or feeling misunderstood. Rather than isolating, Kevan believes that these challenges can open doors for closer fellowship and growth, not only for the family but also for the community that comes alongside them.

He encouraged families to invite others into their lives, whether by actively seeking help or simply opening the door to those waiting to step in. For those in the friend community, Kevan urged them to step forward with both courage and grace, acknowledging that both sides—those in need and those offering help—are vulnerable in the process. By embracing this vulnerability, both parties can experience the profound beauty of true community.

Kevan also highlighted how reciprocal support works: those offering help can also receive profound growth through the act of service. He shared a deeply moving story about his own experiences as a friend who needs help, reflecting on how helping someone truly in need can transform both lives. The opportunity to care for someone else’s limitations is not only an act of love but also a chance for personal growth and selflessness.

In the end, this kind of deep fellowship is reflective of the love and sacrifice modeled by Jesus, who, through his suffering, created the ultimate opportunity for relationship and reconciliation. Kevan’s encouragement to families and communities alike is to embrace these moments of vulnerability, recognizing them as opportunities for deeper connection and spiritual growth.

Advice for their younger selves

If Kevan Chandler and Joe Sutphin could sit down with their younger selves, their advice would center on trust, embracing the journey, and recognizing that challenges shape us. Kevan would reassure his younger self that despite the many questions about his future, especially related to his disability, God’s faithfulness would always see him through. He’d remind himself, “It’s going to be okay. You’ve trusted the Lord, and He’s proven faithful.”

Joe, on the other hand, feels his own experiences shaped who he is today. He wouldn’t change his past struggles, including his childhood resistance to reading, because they made him the person he is. He’d tell his younger self to find books that are fun to read, but ultimately, he believes that creativity comes from within, not from meeting external expectations like reading hundreds of books a year. Both of them would emphasize that they didn’t need to give their younger selves advice because they had mentors and people who spoke wisdom into their lives at just the right moments.

Reflecting on this, I note that it’s probably best we don’t get the chance to go back and give our younger selves advice. After all, God’s grace has guided us to where we are now, and His good works are unfolding in His time.

Key Takeaways

• Faith and Trust in God: Kevan emphasizes the importance of trusting God through life’s uncertainties. He’d remind his younger self that even in the midst of questions and struggles, God’s faithfulness is steadfast.
• God’s Faithfulness: Both Kevan and Joe reflect on God’s provision in their lives, with Kevan sharing how he would tell his younger self, “It’s going to be okay” and to trust in God’s continued faithfulness.
• Creativity Is an Inner Process: Joe highlights that creativity doesn’t come from meeting external expectations, such as reading hundreds of books. He believes creativity flows from within and should not be constrained by others’ standards.
• Experiences Shape Us: Joe shares that the struggles and challenges he faced, including his childhood reluctance to read, were essential in shaping who he is today. He wouldn’t change anything about his past, as it contributed to his personal growth and creative journey.
• Mentors Are Essential: Kevan acknowledges the significant role mentors played in his life, noting that they spoke wisdom into him at crucial times. This guidance helped shape his understanding of life and faith.
• Advice to Younger Selves: Kevan and Joe both emphasize that they wouldn’t necessarily go back and change their younger selves. Instead, they would express gratitude for the experiences that shaped them.
• The Value of Community: The conversation shows how supportive friendships and relationships have been instrumental in their journeys. Kevan reflects on the importance of having people around him who offered counsel and encouragement.
• Reframing Struggles: Joe’s story encourages listeners to embrace their struggles, not as setbacks, but as formative experiences that contribute to personal and professional growth.
• Humility in Creativity: Joe openly shares his own vulnerabilities and how he doesn’t “stack up” to typical creative expectations, inviting others to feel comfortable in their own unique creative paths without pressure to conform.

Listen to the full podcast episode “Joe Sutphin and Kevan Chandler on Friendship, Faith, and Creativity” on  Homeschool Conversations with Humility and Doxology

Joe Sutphin is an illustrator and cartoonist of books for kids. His work includes Little Pilgrim’s Progress and Little Christmas Carol, Andrew Peterson’s Wingfeather Saga, as well as Watership Down: The Graphic Novel. He and his wife Gina live in a barn with 5 cats. 

KEVAN CHANDLER is the founder of a nonprofit organization called We Carry Kevan, and speaks worldwide about friendship and disability. He and his wife, Katie, enjoy doing everything together, including growing vegetables and reading to each other.

Find Joe and Kevan Online

• IG @vanchandler
• IG @wecarrykevan
• http://wecarrykevan.org
• Kevan’s Books

• Instagram @joesutphin
• http://joesutphin.com
• Joe’s Books

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Amy Sloan: And then we’ll just go through the questions. All right. Hello, friends. Today I am so delighted to be joined with actually two special guests. So I’m going to introduce them to you and then have a wonderful conversation. So I think they will both probably be familiar to many of you. First we have Joe Sutphin who is an illustrator and cartoonist of many books for kids. His work includes Little Pilgrim’s Progress, Little Christmas Carol, Andrew Peterson’s Wing Feather Saga, as well as Watership Down, the graphic novel. And he and his wife Gina live in a barn with five cats, which just frankly I won’t be coming to visit you. Too many cats. And then we also have Kevan Chandler who is the founder of a nonprofit organization called We Carry Kevan. And he speaks worldwide about friendship and disability. He and his wife Katie enjoy doing everything together, including growing vegetables and reading to each other. So I’m just really delighted to get to speak to both of you today. So that is sort of your official bios there. But I would love for you to tell us a little bit about yourself, your family, and then how you came to know Jesus. So Kevan, let me start with you.

Kevan Chandler: Yeah. Well, you know, a little bit about my family. I grew up in North Carolina and have two older siblings. And my sister and I both have a disease called spinal muscular atrophy. So we have spent our lives in wheelchairs. And my brother is also an artist and into cartooning and theater and things like that. So we grew up in a very imaginative household. And my parents are really creative as well. And so just spent a lot of our time creating, I guess, being creative with solutions to things that we’re trying to figure out and how to do. But also just having fun with our imaginations and playing a lot with that. Because my sister and I, our bodies don’t work that great. But we have our minds and our words. And so, yeah, I kind of grew up in that kind of lifestyle with my family. And now I live in Indiana. And my wife and I here. And as you said, we love doing everything together. And we grow a garden and read to each other and love cooking and having people in our house. And how I came to know Jesus, I grew up in a Christian home and just always been involved. But when I was six years old, I was having a really hard time wrapping my head around eternity. I thought that that’s something that I should be able to do. And my dad, who probably knows me better than anyone, rather than trying to explain eternity to me, he sat me down and introduced me to Jesus as the person I could spend eternity with. And that changed everything for me. Because I had heard about Jesus. I’d heard the stories. I’d sat in, you know, a thousand sermons and gone to VBS. But in that moment, it became real and personal. And I just think about throughout my life when I have to venture into a new place, whether it’s a new city or a new concert venue or a new person’s house. There’s all these questions that go through my mind as a person in a wheelchair, a person that depends on others. But as long as I have a friend with me or I know someone there, it’s okay. And I feel like that’s what happened in that moment, but on a profound spiritual level of, oh, this is who I get to spend eternity with. And not only that, but it’s who I get to walk through life with. And so that’s when it started for me.

Amy Sloan: I love to hear that. And that’s something we talk about in our family a lot. That, you know, there can be this idea of, like, what do you get out of God or what do you get out of Jesus? Like, what are the benefits, right? And instead, it’s a total mindset shift to think, no, his actual presence is our greatest good, right? That is what makes heaven and eternity so beautiful is to be with Jesus, to be with our Lord face-to-face. Like, that is mind-blowing, but also that’s the greatest possible gift of all. Yeah. Well, Joe, let me ask you that same question as well, yourself, your family, and how you got to know Jesus.

Joe Sutphin: Yep. Well, I grew up in a Christian home. I grew up with a dad who was an artist. And so art was a pretty normal, celebrated thing in our home. And there’s a lot of adept, creative people in my dad’s bloodline and even in my dad’s mom’s. Her brother was a really great artist. So it’s fascinating to look back into my family and see how something like visual art and hand-eye coordination can somehow flow through a family. My dad’s older brother, who I believe he’s in his early 80s now, he texts me everyday drawings that he’s doing still. He’s just drawing all the time. And art was just the only thing I was ever really good at. And so my family just kind of encouraged that as best they knew how. And I’m, you know, like you said, married. Our kids are actually young-ish adults at this point, not really all that young anymore. And they are out on their own. And Gina and I are officially grandparents at this point. And that’s a pretty awesome thing. And Kevan’s story is pretty awesome. And my story, I think that I had a very Sunday school and youth group-driven faith until I aged out of those things. And that was when I think my faith became my own, where I kind of had to contemplate it on my own. And I had to actually have interactions with people in the workplace for the first time. And suddenly contemplate how my faith actually played into my responses to people and the way that I treated people. And I think that that was where my faith really kind of became mine, apart from just the social growing up and learning Bible stories. And then, you know, in youth group kind of just being told all the things you shouldn’t do. So, yeah, when you’re faced with life for real, then you kind of find out what actually took root in you. And I think that that’s kind of been my faith journey ever since. It’s just been always contemplating how am I capable of loving that person? How am I capable of living and loving that person? So, yeah.

Amy Sloan: Yeah, kind of moving from just a list of rules or a list of ideas, but a real ownership and a personal relationship. I just want to mention, just as a behind-the-scenes thing for people listening, one of the questions I ask guests is if there’s anything you would ask yourself. You know, like, what would you ask? And I thought it was so neat that both Kevan and Joe, you both said, you know, I would ask, like, how did you come to know Jesus? And I thought that was a beautiful question and such a wonderful way to kick this off because I know that that then plays into all of the other things we’re going to be talking about today. And so I’m going to kind of try to go back and forth between both of you, but for, of course, like, come in if you have something to add to the conversation, even if I don’t particularly call your name. But, Joe, let me just start with you with this next question. I know that you both have a love for storytelling and cultivating wonder and creative work. You know, Kevan mentioned that as something in his childhood. I see that in the books we have of yours on our shelf, Joe. So I wanted to kind of just start by asking what are some of the books or maybe some of the illustrators that really shaped you personally as a child or through your young adult life?

Joe Sutphin: Yeah, I was not a good reader as a kid. I don’t think I read my first novel until I was probably out of high school. I did not enjoy reading at all. So the majority of the books I had, I only had them because I liked the artwork. But I did as a kid really love Arnold Lobel and I loved Frog and Toad. My favorite was Owl at Home. And I still have my copy of it. And I also have the little record that my mom bought me that has Arnold Lobel reading Owl at Home. And I just, I don’t know, there was something I loved about quaint little cozy stories. And just some of his stuff was just kind of stark and obvious at times. And I just really loved it. But there was a book that I really loved called The Do Something Day by a painter actually who became an author illustrator named Joe Lasker. And I just really liked that story a lot. And there was actually a spread in that book that I found myself looking at a lot that was just a boy standing in front of like a line of storefronts. And he was looking in like a costume shop. And it was like a whole display of Halloween costumes. And I grew up in a family that didn’t celebrate Halloween. And that was fascinating to me. And I would look at that and dream about what would I pick if I was going to pick one of those characters to dress up like. That seemed so fun to me to dress up like a character. But I also, because I didn’t read well, I really loved books on tape, cassette tapes, and books that came with records. I loved a Fisher Price series that my mom was buying me. I had a Tom Sawyer that I really loved listening to this like audio drama. And I would sit and listen to that after school and draw pictures of like maps of underground caves and things like that. And I really loved movies. The Secret of Mim was a movie that I really loved as a kid. I was just, you know, really fascinated by motion picture and animation. But, yeah.

Amy Sloan: We call that reading with our ears in our family. We have a couple kids who it is much harder work to read with their eyes. And so we just call it reading with your ears. Because I figure if you weren’t able to see, you would still be reading, right? Or we call read alouds reading. We don’t say that’s not reading. So for us, audio books are just reading with our ears. How about you, Kevan? What were some of the authors or illustrators or stories that captured you in your childhood?

Kevan Chandler: Yeah. Well, I like that. Reading with your ears. Because I definitely grew up reading with my ears. Because, as I mentioned, I’m the youngest in our family. And when I was little, I was kind of the entertainment at dinner. And so at the end of dinner, when everyone else was done, I still had to eat. And so at some point, my sister figured it out and made an agreement of she would sit with me and read to me while I ate. And if I stopped eating, she would stop reading. So I had to keep eating. Like if I just got distracted. But she would read until I was done with my plate. And so as a result, I got read to a lot as a kid. Honestly, I don’t remember the first books that I read by myself, just because it was so… Reading to each other was so integrated. So, I mean, my sister was reading Chronicles of Narnia to me. And Folk of the Faraway Tree and Peter Pan. And then I remember my mom reading, like, Little Bear and Winnie the Pooh. And, you know, just these classics that could be read over and over. And so they kind of got settled into my bones, you know, as a part of me. And I really, yeah, I was read to a lot throughout my childhood. And then I remember when my sister was in college, I was in high school. And she came home from school over Christmas and said, Hey, I just finished reading The Princess Bride. And I really want to read it to you. And I was all excited. And she started reading it. And maybe, I don’t know, a handful of pages or a chapter in, she got really sick with pneumonia. And so I took over. And that was kind of when I really started reading to her. And that became a really important book to us. And I think shaped a lot of my love for storytelling. And Peter Pan as well. That one stuck with me and has been a repeat enjoyment over and over throughout my life.

Amy Sloan: I think those shared stories are so special. Because they become part of the relationship too, right? It’s like the book exists. The story exists. But then somehow you’ve shared it with another person. And there’s something extra special about that for sure.

Kevan Chandler: Yeah, it takes on a whole new dimension.

Amy Sloan: Yeah. Well, Kevan, when did sort of your writing become a part of your life? And what has that adventure been like to enter into the writing world?

Kevan Chandler: Yeah, well, so not only did my sister read to me as a kid. But also, you know, we played a lot of make-believe. We’d come up with different stories and scenarios. And sometimes we wrote them out or drew little cartoons of it. But a lot of times it was just playing them in the backyard and then forgetting about them, you know. So it was always part of my play was to make up stories. And in middle school, I started writing them down like ideas of my own. In high school and college, I played in a band. So I wrote a lot of songs. And some of those were sort of narrative. But really just kind of getting used to that idea of putting my ideas on paper. Probably when I should have been writing papers for school, I was writing songs instead. And short stories and stuff. But really, for me, when it became more of a conscious decision was after college. A friend of mine gave me a book called The Thirteen and a Half Lives of Captain Blue Bear. And it’s just this really wacky, very, very long, fully illustrated book by a German political cartoonist. And it’s kind of a Gulliver’s Travels sort of thing. And I remember sitting, I was at my parents’ house, sitting in my old room, reading it. And at one point, it just felt like the author stepped out of the book and said, Hey, if this crazy idea can be accepted as like a book for the public, then maybe your idea is good too. And so that’s when I really leaned into writing. I self-published a handful of novels and stuff like that. And then really started pursuing writing as part of my career.

Amy Sloan: Well, I want to kind of piggyback down to Joe too. Because we have writing and illustrating as sort of these collaborative efforts. But Joe, before we move into some of the things that you guys have worked on together, your illustrations are a huge part of our family’s life. I know many other families as well. We have many of your books on the shelves. My youngest son especially will try to copy some of your illustrations and make his own versions of them. But I noticed that you love especially drawing nature and animals. And I’m wondering, I heard something in the story you were telling earlier about the frog and toad and the Lobel books. So I’m wondering if that’s going to come into this answer. But I’m wondering what it was about those subjects of nature and animals that really speaks to you. And how you try to bring them to life on the page or why you try.

Joe Sutphin: There might be something. I’m sure there is something to certain aspects of what I do that traces back to those stories. I know that some of it traces back to films like The Secret of Nim. But even before I was published, I was doing a lot of sketchbooking. And I was very interested in artists like Wallace Tripp and Garth Williams and Bill Peet. There’s just something very fun and free about anthropomorphic animals. And I enjoyed and did art that I enjoyed when I worked on The Winged Feather Saga and other books like that. But there’s a rigidity and an expectation that is there when you’re drawing humans. The human figure and form. And when you don’t draw something correctly when you’re drawing the human form, it’s very obvious that you didn’t draw it correctly. And I always tried to make everything very believable, even if I’m exaggerating. But there is so much more concentration needed and even reference at times needed to make sure that you’re drawing the human figure well. And then also there is the aspect of we have biases. And we have certain ways that we view people or people groups or types of people. There are things that make us maybe not feel connected to a lead character. Or we don’t feel like… Yeah, I think that I started to find that the more that I drew animal characters, the more that it kind of just transcended the way that we view people in general. Like maybe a lead character in a book might look like or resemble a character that the child reader has been hurt by or has not had agreements with or something. Or there’s something that doesn’t feel relatable or something about that character. Or maybe you have a boy who’s reading and he doesn’t like when you hand him a book and the female is a lead. But that might not be the problem when your female lead is suddenly a rabbit or a fox or something. There’s something that sort of transcends our expectations. And it is easier and more freeing to draw those things as an artist. It’s almost like pulling taffy. Nobody’s going to criticize me and say, well, when my cats walk around with clothes, they don’t look like that. So there’s a lot of freedom to just kind of make it up as you go and the reader just accepts what you give them. And I think that I’m able to tell a story. And there is absolutely a place and a need at times to address societal and social difficulties and things that need addressed, things that kids should try and think through. But we don’t always need that in our stories. Sometimes kids just need stories because stories are fun and they’re wonderful for your imagination and they bring joy to your life. And I think that somehow your anthropomorphic storylines and characters kind of take a kid away from the world that they’re in every day at school or that they’re in at home. There’s a vulnerability that kids relate to when you have a main character that’s a mouse and they’re having to go up against great odds or something that kids can understand that. And as a writer and as an artist, that’s a fun thing to take that little vulnerable character and put them up against great odds. And yeah, there’s just a lot more freedom and there’s less expectation for you to meet certain norms. And I enjoy that sort of world building that just takes you out of our everyday life and just allows a place to be, you know, not our time and space.

Amy Sloan: It’s almost like by removing the humanity from the character, you’ve actually been able to find that central questions about humanity. You know, like, what does it mean to be a good man? I was talking to someone about Mrs. Frisbee and the Rats of Nim recently, trying to encourage them to read this book. And I was like, it’s really asking questions about, like, what’s the good life and what does it mean to be a good man? I mean, a good rat, but, like, it’s really about a good man. And so it’s almost by removing some of those things that might divide us as humans, we’re able to find something so much more central or universal in the story.

Joe Sutphin: Yeah, because I’m also, you know, imbuing the core, like, emotions and the way that we feel and the way that we respond. I’m having to build those into the faces of animals. I’m not creating an animal world that is like the normal animal world, where it’s, you know, a kill or be killed sort of thing. I feel like it is successful if there’s a sad situation and the way I depicted the characters causes the reader and the viewer to feel emotion, to feel something strong that they related to. And I think part of what I was saying earlier, too, is there’s something about we really relate with animals, too. Like, most of us, when we watch, like, an animal documentary and, you know, the gazelle is getting chased by the hyenas or whatever, we’re not usually saying, like, get them, hyenas, get them. You know, usually it’s like we don’t want to get eaten. Kids don’t want to get eaten by a hyena. So we’re like, oh, get away, get away, get away. And then we cheer when he does. And, you know, it’s sort of, like, already in us that we’re already rooting for that. Whereas, you know, maybe if it’s a child getting chased by a hyena in a book, I could have picked an easier animal to say. But you probably, like, you know, it probably would spark more fear, more realistic fear in a kid that might be more troubling than helpful. So depending on the age of the kid.

Amy Sloan: Yeah, that’s a way to kind of deal with those hard things, but in an appropriate, like, parallel way. Well, then that’s a perfect segue to this new book that you guys have worked on together, King’s Cadets, which is based on the brothers from Little Pilgrim’s Progress. So I’m really curious what drew you both to this story and what you hope readers are going to take away from it. And then how your own friendship together has kind of influenced this book. So, Kevan, I’ll start with you. What kind of drew you to this? And tell me about your relationship with Joe and how this influenced the book.

Kevan Chandler: I mean, Joe told me there would be hyenas. No, I’m just kidding. No. It’s hyenas, Kevan. Sorry, the hyenas. Yeah, I don’t know where to start as far as our relationship or what drew me to the book because it’s all kind of tied together. I love Little Pilgrim’s Progress and what Joe did with that. And as I read it, it’s just like, I don’t know, the characters are so lovable, both in the story, but also in the illustrations that just kind of saw, oh, there’s more here that we can explore. And this really, King’s Cadets was Joe’s idea that he brought to me and said, you know, is this something you would want to work on with me? And I immediately said yes. At least that’s how I remember it. But I think I said yes because Joe and I, this is the first real kind of full project that we’ve worked on together, but we’ve played around with ideas together and we’ve traveled together, which means we’ve made up ideas on the road. It’d be fun if we did this project or if this story existed or, you know, different stuff and kind of riffing off of each other and playing off of each other’s ideas. And so I, you know, we had always wanted to work on something in a more official capacity. And so when he brought this to me, it was like, great, this is it. Let’s run with it. I mean, I kind of said this already, but I feel like with Joe’s illustrations, you know, you even just look at his sketches like on Instagram and these kind of offhanded, not for any project, they’re just characters that he draws up and you look at those and you’re like, there’s a story behind that character. And I’ve been looking at his drawings for years and thinking that and like chomping at the bit to run with ideas and so I feel like by him inviting me into this, I got to explore some of that with him. And I think, you know, you were asking earlier about like authors that I read and influenced how I write and I feel like when I met Joe and I mean, it was what, 10 years ago, 12 years ago, when we met and I saw his work. It was like, oh, this is, when I think of ideas, like oftentimes this is the visual that would come along with it. And so it just seemed to flow together. And the last thing I’ll say is this book really came out of a couple of years ago and I was kind of wrestling with some things in life and really needed time with Joe. So my wife Casey, we drove out to where Joe and Gina live and Joe and I got to go for a walk on this property and just talk about stuff and I think it was after that, which was a really important day of healing and restoration for me in a difficult time of life. But Joe called me shortly after, he may have even brought it up that day as a loose idea, but said, hey, what would you think of doing this? And I just felt like that was kind of a new chapter of life that I’m really excited about.

Amy Sloan: I love hearing that story. Joe, what’s kind of your perspective on it? And then kind of specifically coming up with King’s Cadets as the brother’s story of Little Pilgrim’s Progress as opposed to like a separate story. What was sort of your experience with this particular project?

Joe Sutphin: Well, I remember, I think it was two summers ago, I was mowing and I was thinking to myself of how much effort that me and my art director at Moody, Eric Peterson, who’s a good friend of me and Kevan’s, how much work that we and even Gina, my wife, all the ideas she helped pitch and bring to me or help me refine things. There was just a lot of work that went into the three of us basically coming up with various aspects of the visual reimagining of Little Pilgrim’s Progress. And there were a whole lot of characters that you get introduced to in that book. And some of those characters, you kind of don’t get to see what happened in their world and their life. And I just was really thinking to myself, how can I do something else? Because I’ve never really had a lot of issue wrapping a book up and getting done with the art and moving on. And I think this was the first time that I had worked on something and found myself in a position of, oh man, I’m running out of time and I’ve got to wrap this book up and I’ve got to pick which illustrations I need to cut out of the list. Because I had gone over my quoted art contractually. I had gone over by, I don’t know, like 60 illustrations or something. I had done way more than we had said I was going to do in the book because there was just so much you could show. And the whole reason we were making the book was so that I could show it in my way. And so I found myself continually wanting to do more and then I was done. And then you’re not making any more art from the book. And I’ve never really been somebody who finishes a book and then keeps drawing those characters for any reason. I always am moving on to other ideas and other projects. And I thought about, you know, maybe I could tell some stories of this character or that character. And I started writing out some ideas for some and I even put together several chapters for a book on a certain character that I shelved. And then I thought, you know, we never really saw what happened with Christiana’s little brothers, with Matthew and James and Joseph. And they stayed back in the Land of Delight and we know that they really admired Great Heart and they wanted to be like him. And we were kind of left wondering what their lives would be like. And I was hearing from a lot of families that were reading, they were doing a lot of read-alouds, that the youngest kids in the family didn’t always understand what was being read. So they’re looking forward to seeing the drawing on the next page, but they don’t always understand the kind of… Because there’s a weightiness to Little Pilgrim’s Progress that at times Eric and I even felt like maybe this scene is a little PG-13. Maybe it’s a little over the heads of the younger ones because we left the death of that character in that scene or whatever because it’s a weighty, hard topic. And I was always careful not to gratuitously show those things because I felt like reading them or having them read to a kid would be heavy enough than to actually show them. So I tried to leave those alone, but it just occurred to me, I could do something for the younger kids in the family. And maybe I could make the art nice enough that the older kids in the family wouldn’t make fun of the kids for reading the little thing. Maybe they would even be interested in wanting to see it because the art was really fun. And I just had this idea and Kevan was at the house, like he said, and I think we were sitting in the shade after our walk and I knew he was a little bummed about some things. And I just said, you know what, I’ve been thinking, I could obviously write the thing and just go to Moody and say, I’m going to do it. And they would have said, okay. But my thing was, I don’t have all the time in the world and it takes time to write manuscripts. I can come up with the ideas as I normally would and then I enjoy the process a lot more when I’m building that story with somebody that I love. And so I really love making books with people that I love. Because making books can be a very isolating process. You’re contractually, you can’t talk about it much and you’re just kind of in a vacuum and you’re making art every day. And everybody else is posting stuff on Instagram and you don’t have anything you can post because you’re making this.

Amy Sloan: It’s a top secret.

Joe Sutphin: Yeah. Nope. Don’t talk about it. I remember, Kevan, I said, I would want to do something like the books that we grew up with where we have maybe five short stories and it’s like 700 words, 800 words on the whole thing. It’s 60 pages. We’re not doing a whole lot. And so I think he was not like 100% committed at first, but it was like the next day that he called me up and was just raring to go. And I think within like a week he had a rough draft of five stories because he just writes things so quickly. But I had originally just, I thought, I just want it to be something fun. And I just threw out some ideas and he and I both started tossing these ideas back and forth. And we had like the Cotton Cadets and we had the King’s Leapers and silly names like the Bunny Boys. And we just kind of mashed it all together and said, you know, the King’s Cadets, like that’s great because that feels like they really want to be like, you know, knights for the King’s purpose. You know, they want to help people like Great Heart does. And then I just liked the concept of us having a main character, even though we have three main characters. And it was just fun to just kind of change that a little bit and from Joseph to Joe and just call him Little Joe because he’s the youngest. And it was just kind of a fun concept of making something endearing. And so the King’s Cadets and Little Joe kind of separates him as slightly more main character than the others. And Moody loved it and we just got going.

Amy Sloan: Oh, I love hearing that story of your collaboration. And Kevan, I would kind of love to hear your perspective on what the creative process is like working as a team on a collaborative process. What’s your favorite thing is about working with Joe? I really thought it was interesting. I guess I had never thought of this until Joe brought this up. But when you’re working on a project as an individual, it would be more isolating. And there is something unique, I’m sure, about the collaborative effort. So Kevan, what’s your experience been with this collaboration?

Kevan Chandler: Yeah, yeah. I feel like just like with illustrating, writing can be a very isolating, kind of lonely endeavor. And a few years ago, I guess if we started this two years ago, this would have been just a little bit before that. I was praying about that and saying, you know, God, I really love writing. I love telling stories. But I also really like being around people and collaborating and working together. I don’t know what those look like together. But could you make that happen? And I kind of forgot about that prayer. And it was great to, within a year, look up from a very busy schedule and realize everything I was doing was writing with friends. And Joe, I think ours was the first project in that to come up. And so, yeah, it was kind of a process that I don’t think either of us knew exactly how to navigate. But that was also a gift that we were navigating it together. And, you know, Joe had illustrated on books by other authors. But it’s usually, I mean, he could speak more to it, but it’s usually like, here’s the book. Here’s what we want for illustrations. Have fun, you know, and we’ll give you notes. And I had always worked on books by myself and had an editor, but that was pretty much it. And this was like, oh, I want to work on this book. It is Joe’s idea. So I’m not just saying, great, I’ll see you in a bit. I’ll go write it and then you illustrate it. It was like we both gave input on the writing and the illustration. So as Joe said, we got together in person. We did Zoom calls and just kind of dreamed and came up with ideas. And we took a lot of notes. And then I would go away for a little bit and write some drafts and then send them to him. And then he’d send back notes. And it was very back and forth and fun to see, you know, his ideas be added to that. And then when it came to illustrations, as he was working on them, he would send me photos. And we would talk about those as well. And something that I really love about that is we are really big fans of each other’s work. So as I was writing, Joe would be like, man, I love this part. This is so cool. This is really fun. And then as he’s sending me illustrations and I was just in awe of everything that he sent me. And I’d say, oh, this one’s my favorite. And then he’d send another. Well, now that one’s my favorite, you know. And so I think to answer your last question there, I think my favorite thing about Joe and I working together is that we get to celebrate each other so much throughout the process. It’s not celebrating the final product, which we do that as well. But it’s actually celebrating every step of the way and every day of being part of the project together, which I think is it allows more sustainability. And in theory, it allows a greater outcome because you’re not just working in a vacuum hoping that this is good. You’re actually being encouraged day by day throughout the process. So I really, really love that about what we’ve been doing.

Amy Sloan: Well, I cannot wait to read your book and to see this new book that’s coming out. I will just mention, if you are listening or watching, make sure you check the show notes and I’ll put the link. I think, Lord willing, when this episode goes live, the book will be available to purchase. It’s not right now, so I’m going to have to hold on. But I think that it will be interesting to look and read. Just hearing both of you share, I can see just the love you have for one another and this friendship, this mutual respect. And I can’t wait to see how that creatively has played out in this story. I know it will be a delightful addition to many families’ bookshelves. I would like to kind of pivot a little bit and kind of dig in more specifically because I know a lot of the homeschooling families who listen to homeschool conversations, they have this sort of general desire to encourage their kids’ creativity. They want to pursue truth, goodness, and beauty in their family. And so these are great ideas, but sometimes it can be hard to know what does that actually mean? What are some ways parents can encourage their children in these ways? So, Joe, I was wondering if you had any tips or perspective to share from your years as a creative.

Joe Sutphin: Yeah. I don’t know positively, maybe as I talk, I don’t know if I have great tips. I do have perspective. And I did not grow up in homeschooling culture. I knew a few kids that were homeschooled. I grew up in the 80s. And there was never this sort of intentional pursuit of truth, goodness, and beauty. There wasn’t really a guidance toward that. But it was the 80s, so there was a lot of heavy-handed pushing away from certain things. But I think that growing up then, we were kind of set free to just explore life and the world, and we didn’t have the distractions of instant anything. So you did have to, you know, video games back then, you only had a certain amount of lives. And so you usually got frustrated within a half hour or something, and you got your video game fix and went out and played. And it was a different way of living. I wish I could say that I did a better job with this even with our own kids. I think I did a good job of playing and spending time with them in play and trying to help them seek out wonder in those ways. I was always looking for what they were interested in, what they were good at. Like I said, my family, it was very natural to be involved in art. I was never pushed into art. I just enjoyed it. And so my parents would sign me up for the extra art classes at school. Eventually, I took a two-year commercial art program in high school that led me to art college that I then dropped out of. So I’m not the best role model there. However, I guess I am a case study for I don’t really know many people that I went to art school with that are doing art right now, and a lot of them probably graduated. So I don’t think that that’s what makes a professional artist or a successful artist. But I can imagine that maybe for some of the families that listen and some of the families that are part of the various online communities, there could be some sort of pressure even that they feel to stack up to what they’re seeing. All the really successful-looking families that are out there and their kids are just doing the most wonderful little projects and crafty things, and they all are so involved together as a family, and everybody’s engaged at read-aloud time. And I think that if your kids, if you notice that they love artwork, they love reading and writing, that encouraging them to do those things in ways that feel rewarding, but maybe not in ways that feel like there’s an opportunity to disappoint, that you didn’t stack up to what we were hoping for in this. Or maybe not always doing it in a project or curriculum-based scenario, but in a fun-based scenario, helping them chase the wonder of writing, of the wonder of chasing down really fun sentences that are fun to read and fun to say, or chasing down, drawing the things, the details that are really interesting to them. And then letting them be a kid, because their time to be a kid is so short, and your time to be their parent is so short. And there’s reward to come from seeing them grow up and knowing that you played a part in cultivating certain things, but you can’t guarantee how they grow up, and you can’t guarantee who they are in the end of that. But you could look back and say, I spent a lot of time enjoying them being my kids, and they got to enjoy me being their parent, and I celebrated them growing up. Maybe one thing is you could just help try and limit their time on apps, social media, and YouTube. All of these things are designed for the, quote, doom scrolling, and I’m so thankful I didn’t grow up with that capability to just sit and veg out and then find myself doom scrolling for an hour and not know where that hour had gone. And you’d gotten so many endorphins from just the rapid scrolling of visual information, allow them to get those chemicals and things going because they discovered a salamander under a rock or something, not because they got on YouTube and started just scrolling through three-minute clips of salamanders for four hours. There’s wonder that can be chased, and they’ll end up growing up, having good memories of growing up. Like I said, I have perspective, and I hope I don’t sound discouraging at all. I just would encourage parents to enjoy being the parents of your kids while they’re your kids because it just goes fast.

Amy Sloan: Now, I think that’s so fantastic, and I actually love that you shared it as I have perspective, not like a prescription, right? Yeah. Because so often as parents, we think, okay, well, just tell me the five things I need to do, and then I’ll go do those five things, and we’ll be good. Like, check the boxes. And my kids now, by the time this comes out, will be like 10 to 20. So I have some kids, but I have some like grown-ups, legit grown-ups now too. And I think some of the best creativity, some of the best growth in my own children, especially as I think about those young adult children, has been just from giving them space. Like not because, oh, you’re interested in that? Okay, let’s turn this into a unit study. Oh, you’re interested in that? Let’s make that like you should go be an entrepreneur about that, and let’s start a little side gig. No, just like let them have the freedom to just try things and explore. Like what you were saying, like not everything they’re interested in, like it shouldn’t have an opportunity to fail or disappoint. I think that’s so valuable, so important, because we as parents can so desire to help our children and encourage them, and sometimes it can be counterproductive. And so just giving opportunity, providing opportunities, giving space, and then kind of also giving freedom to try something and it not work. And that’s okay. Like that’s really important too.

Joe Sutphin: Yeah.

Amy Sloan: Yeah. Well, Kevan, if I can ask you a specific question as well. Over the past several years, I’ve connected with many families, both here online and actually in my own life, my own personal family, families who are dealing with challenges like physical disabilities, chronic medical challenges, learning challenges, cancer like my own son. And I know you have spoken all over the world about topics like friendship, disability, and inclusion. And I was wondering if you had any advice or encouragement to share to families and kids, maybe you’re dealing with pretty significant long-term or short-term challenges. And then how can those of us in their friend communities support and encourage them as well?

Kevan Chandler: Yeah, I think, you know, just to go back to the book real quick, to King’s Cadets, I spend a lot of my time, like you said, speaking about friendship and disability and the crossroads of those two things. And as we were working on this book, I was really wrestling with like, wait, this doesn’t have to do with disability, right? What do I do? Like how do I, what am I going to be talking on at this point in life? But then I realized the key is the friendship, and in this case, the brotherhood of these three brothers and how they care for one another and they have adventures together. And so I would say my encouragement to families that are going through difficult challenges, whether it is, like you said, short-term or long-term, and whatever level it is, I would, you know, it’s easy, it’s an easy temptation to close the door, batten down the hatches and just figure it out as a family because you don’t want to answer the same question a hundred times from well-meaning people. You don’t want to, you know, you don’t want people to try and help and it actually hurts. You know, there’s all these dynamics. You don’t want to expect people to help and they don’t because that hurts a lot. And so, yeah, there’s all these dynamics that you, it would just be easy to not deal with. And yet, that is not how we were created. That’s not what we’ve been called to live in. And so my encouragement to families would be to see these difficulties and these needs that you have as a door through which you can go with people into a deeper fellowship. And you can invite people into this place of vulnerability because people want that depth of relationship. And I was about to say unfortunately, but I don’t think it is unfortunately. That’s where you find it, is in the really hard situations and the really painful, difficult trials in life. And so, yeah, that’s where beauty is found and a depth of fellowship. So I would just encourage families dealing with challenges to kind of loosen those hands and open those doors and invite their community in. Sometimes that means going out and getting it. Sometimes it means just open the door because they’re standing there waiting to come in. And so to that, I would also say to the community that wants to be those friends, that wants to be that support, step in with courage and also grace because it’s really like for the amount of maybe fear that you have stepping into it, the family is also scared. And so give each other grace. Be willing to ask questions. Be willing to observe and learn. And then, yeah, so the families have the same kind of grace. And I think if we just step into each other’s vulnerabilities, we’re going to see a deeper kind of relationship and a closer picture of what the kingdom of heaven looks like. And the last thing I would say to both parties involved would be, you know, it’s another easy temptation is to see the community coming in. They’re the ones helping. But it’s really reciprocal. The community coming in is also served by those who have the more obvious need. And so the families that are inviting them in, look at that as a way to care for the community. And the community stepping in, don’t step in as the rescuer, but step in as a participant in a story that’s much greater than any of us.

Amy Sloan: That’s so encouraging to hear. And I guess I was thinking first when you were, first you’re like, unfortunately, no, wait a minute, it’s fortunately. I was thinking about the example of Jesus himself, who right in his suffering, in his humiliation, that is what was the vessel for our relationship. You know, both his active obedience, that humiliation, his death, his resurrection, all those things. So it’s like the most fortunate, unfortunate thing that could have happened, right? And how that is a picture so often of how suffering or difficult situations can be formative in community and in relationship. And then I was also just thinking in our own family, I know that it is easy when you’ve always been the person to help other people, right? It is one of the most humbling and yet most beautiful things to be the one being like, yeah, I can’t help anybody right now, right? And to receive the help. I think so often it’s actually almost easier to be the person to give help than there’s something really beautiful about the way the Lord teaches us our own need for him and just the love that we experience as the recipient of help. And that has been a really beautiful thing, I know, in our own family over the past couple years I’m very thankful for.

Joe Sutphin: Yeah. Well, I know that I am a man now. I mean, I’m not always proud of who I am. I’m not always happy with who I am as a person, as a man, dad, husband, friend, son. But I know that I would rather be who I am having been Kevan’s friend than if I’d never met him. Because Kevan is somebody who he does actually need help. He doesn’t ask help because he wants help. There is a great level of inability. It’s not a disrespectful thing to acknowledge that. It is a respectful thing to look at Kevan to say, I acknowledge that there are things he literally just cannot do. And Kevan, I have watched him make no bones about asking for that help. And he was that way with me very quickly into my knowing him. And I have witnessed, in many situations, people have their first moment of Kevan asking them for a very needed help. And I, from the distance, I’m witnessing a moment where I know that that person right there has an opportunity right now in their life to grow in a way that they never would have if they’d never run into Kevan right now. And helping someone who really needs your help, who doesn’t just want a buddy or a partner, but really needs your help, it really is your opportunity to be something that you would never have been. If you never have to be extremely cautious about how you help a person’s physical body or that you don’t want them to be uncomfortable, that you don’t want them to feel undignified, that you know they feel awkward and you feel awkward, anything that requires the care of a person that’s vulnerable, you’re being put in a position where you can either despise what you’re going through or you can learn to recognize that that’s actually what love is, that you just have to die in that moment. Anything you’re hoping for, you just got to die and you just got to be with that person and be the part that they don’t have. And I’m not good at that in a lot of things in life. And being Kevan’s friend is something that has done that for me. I had a grandfather who was a paraplegic and there were things that I helped him with. And I think that maybe that softened the ground for me to then gravitate towards Kevan a little bit. But I certainly wasn’t ready for the type of things that I was going to need to do to be Kevan’s actual friend. And I’m really, really grateful for being given the opportunity for things about me that aren’t worthwhile to die off. And I’ll still have to fight some of those things, but there are parts of me that grew because of my friendship with someone like Kevan that could never happen. And you’re given that opportunity when you serve somebody. Gina and I went to St. Jude maybe eight years ago to do art with some of the sickest kids in the world at the Target House in their art room there. And I still have some of those kids’ names on my chalkboard here because I didn’t want to forget them. But some of the families, they look shell-shocked. Everybody’s just stopped everything. Dad stopped work. Everybody just goes to a different state, and they just want one of the kids in the family to get better. And I was there just to draw pictures with them. And it blew me away. I’m just here to make some kids laugh for a few minutes, give Mom and Dad a little bit of a break for a minute, whatever. And I can remember driving down the interstate from Memphis after that, and then suddenly on the freeway, I just got overcome with emotion. And I think Gina said, you okay? And I said, I’m never going to be the same again. And I’ve had those moments with Kevan where I’ve just recognized that nothing’s ever going to be the same again. That something just changed.

Amy Sloan: I almost want to now have a part two where we talk about this disembodiment of humanity, especially in this postmodern age and with AI and how we’ve suddenly become even more Gnostic. And this beautiful thing of the reality of the limitations of the body and the pain of that. That’s also redemptive. This is a whole other interview we’re going to have to do. Part two.

Joe Sutphin: Maybe you can do that. Have Kevan come back and talk about his Hospitality of Need book. That would be great.

Amy Sloan: Okay. Kevan, not to put you on the spot, but reach out to me. I would love that for part two.

Kevan Chandler: We can do that. Yeah. We want to.

Amy Sloan: As we get here to the end, I do just want to give you both kind of an opportunity. If you could sit down with your younger selves, what piece of advice or encouragement would you give about faith, creativity, or pursuing your calling? Kevan, you want to go first?

Kevan Chandler: Oh, man. I was hoping Jo would go first. I’d say that sounds good to me. You know, I think just like that prayer that I mentioned earlier about, God, I don’t know what writing with friends looks like, but could you make that happen? And then looking up a few years later and being like, oh, it’s happening. And it’s happening a lot. This is great. I think I would, if I could talk to my younger self, you know, there were, and I would say there still are just so many questions in my life of like, how is this going to turn out? And, you know, how long is this going to take? Is it going to happen? And things with, you know, my physical self with a disability and a progressive disease that gets worse over time and questions that I have now and questions I had then. And, you know, I’ve been married for four and a half years, but there were 35 years before that that I wasn’t, you know, and just all kinds of questions that I’ve had in life. I think if I could talk to my younger self at any age from birth to last week, I would say, I would look him in the eye and I would say, it’s going to be okay. You’ve trusted the Lord and he has proven faithful. And that’s not going to change. Like, just hang in there. He’s got you. It’s going to be all right. And then maybe take a few deep breaths together. So.

Amy Sloan: Second Timothy 2, he cannot deny himself. That is one of my favorite promises. How about you, Joe? What would you say to your younger self?

Joe Sutphin: Man. Yeah. I don’t want to disappoint again, but that is a complicated question. And even listening to Kevan, I think if you did go back and tell young Kevan that, you would actually never work through those things and have a testimony. And so it is complicated. The actual factors that you brought up of going back and talking to my younger self about those specific factors, I honestly don’t think I would go back and tell him anything because I creatively and thoughtfully am who I am today because of all the exact ways that I grew up and the exact things that I experienced. And I don’t think that changing those things would make me a better person. There are plenty of things in life that I would probably go back and maybe help. If anything, maybe I would go back and tell the younger me, try and help the younger me find some books that were actually really fun and interesting to read. But at the same time, I am someone that when I get interviewed, I am able to just be honest and tell families I did not read well as a kid. I didn’t start enjoying reading until I was an adult. And a lot of families have kids that don’t read well. And I hear a lot of authors talk, you know, read 200 books a year and just blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I think that, again, it is always just amping up this perception of, you know, if you want to write books, you better be reading 200 books a year or you shouldn’t be writing anything. And that kind of stuff is just, it’s rubbish. You know, you may have never written anything and you may write the coolest, most amazing thing because it’s just going to come from some place in you that means something. And so I don’t think that I would go back and change Joe creatively or because I just don’t think, I think I’d mess with the space-time continuum. And you wouldn’t have me sitting here being vulnerable about what I’m not and how I don’t stack up.

Amy Sloan: We don’t want to create a, like, crazy metaverse, universe, universe, whatever.

Kevan Chandler: Well, and if I can piggyback off of that, I would say too, when you asked that, the reason I had an answer, not saying Joe wouldn’t have an answer for this, but the reason I was like, oh, I know what I would say, I would say it’s because I did have people that spoke into my life that way, you know? So I’m not coming at it with a, like, well, if I could go back, I could tell myself what I didn’t know. It’s like, no, I would actually just mimic what my dad told me and my mentor Judd told me and my best friend Zach told me, you know, and Joe has told me, you know. So maybe going back, I wouldn’t have to say anything. I would just kind of shadow myself.

Joe Sutphin: Stare yourself down.

Kevan Chandler: Yeah. Say, listen here, buddy.

Joe Sutphin: Knock it off.

Amy Sloan: Oh, man. I’d probably actually be too mean to my younger self. I’d be like, cut it out, punk. What are you doing?

Joe Sutphin: Yep.

Amy Sloan: Oh, man. It’s a good thing. It’s a good thing we can’t go back to our younger selves, and it’s a good thing that the Lord was so much more gracious with us than we would be with ourselves, and he has led us to now with these good works he’s prepared for us, right?

Joe Sutphin: Yeah. Yeah.

Amy Sloan: Well, here at the end, I want to ask you the questions that I ask all my guests. So the first is just, what are you personally reading lately with your eyes, your ears, or any other way you can read, I guess? How about you go first, Joe?

Joe Sutphin: I listen to a lot of podcasts. It’s hard to name any off the top of my head. I am actually reading In the Mornings through the Book of Romans right now, which I really enjoy reading that book because it just is one of those things that always gets me back down to ground level. I’m reading Almost Finished with the Myth Makers by my buddy John Hendricks. It’s a graphic novel about the friendship between Tolkien and Lewis. I actually started reading The Return of the King again recently because it just really felt like I was in the mood for it. And I have lots of books that I’m just like in the process of reading, and I just grab them and read a little bit more of them here and there.

Amy Sloan: So it’s always a good time for, you know, the Apostle Paul, Tolkien. How about you, Kevan? What are you reading?

Kevan Chandler: Yeah, well, that’s a good point. In the Bible, my wife and I are going through 1 Timothy and listening to Alistair Begg’s sermon series on that and reading along as we go, which has been really, really awesome. Personally, I’ve been reading a novel by Charles Williams, who was one of the Inklings. And the reason I’m reading it is I have heard that he was a big influence on how Lewis wrote that Hideous Strengths part of the Space Trilogy. And my thought was, well, I really, really like that book. So maybe I’ll really like Charles Williams. And he is crazy. He’s a lot of fun to read. So I’m having fun with that. But then my wife and I are also listening to the audiobook for Blessed are the Misfits by Brent Hansen. And we just love everything that he’s written. So it’s been really refreshing to be going through another one of his books lately.

Amy Sloan: Well, those all sound great as well. I have actually never read Charles Williams personally. I have, of course, been familiar with him and his part of the Inklings friendship group. But I have heard he’s a little bit kooky. I don’t know if you ever get a chance to go to Wheaton, Illinois. There’s a museum there where you can go and see Tolkien’s desk and see the wardrobe that was Lewis’s wardrobe. And they have papers and books and paraphernalia from Charles Williams, George MacDonald, Dorothy Sayers, all those guys. So it’s kind of fun.

Kevan Chandler: All right.

Amy Sloan: Final question. What would be your best tip for turning around a day that seems to be going all wrong? Joe, you want to get us started?

Joe Sutphin: A time machine. Probably just go back and start it over. Man, yeah. I don’t know. I’m full of disappointments. I struggle with days that are going wrong and trying to make them get them right again. I think the best thing to do is just get active doing something. Don’t allow yourself to go sit in a slump somewhere and stew about it. Just serve somebody. It’s hard to be mad when you’re trying to serve somebody.

Amy Sloan: That is a really good tip. How about you, Kevan?

Kevan Chandler: I just call Joe, actually. My wife notices. I love being with my wife, as we’ve said already. She brings me so much joy. But she has also seen, like, when Joe calls me, or I actually have two other really dear friends. One’s actual name is Joe, and the other is nicknamed Joe. So I have three Joes. So the way she says it, it’s like, oh, one of the Joes is calling.

Joe Sutphin: So all three Joes’ phone numbers will be in the show notes. So if you have a problem, that’s how you turn your day around.

Kevan Chandler: But really, I mean, like two years ago, when I was really having a hard time, I mean, my wife called Gina and said, like, you know, hey, we got to get these guys together. We got to, Joe and Kevan need to be together. So if I’m having a bad day, I mean, I’ll text or call Joe, or sometimes the spirit just leads him to reach out to me and, you know, and vice versa. So I think that’s a big, big thing for me. But I think he’s also very right. It’s hard to be self-focused and sitting in the darkness of a bad day if you’re focused on someone else and caring for them. So I think that’s also the way to go.

Amy Sloan: That is a wonderful encouragement and a great way to end our conversation. I have so enjoyed speaking to both of you. Thank you for taking the time to chat. You’re always welcome here on Homeschool Conversations. At the end, though, can you let us know where people can find you all around the Internet, Kevan?

Kevan Chandler: Yeah, so I have a personal Instagram. It’s Van Chandler, V-A-N Chandler. And then my nonprofit is called We Carry Kevan. And you can check us out at wecarryKevan.org.

Amy Sloan: Okay. And how about you, Joe? Yep.

Joe Sutphin: The best place to find me is on Instagram with just my name, Joe Sutphin. I do have a website, joesutphin.com, but I don’t update it very well. And my wife runs an Etsy shop where she sells my prints and original art and things like that and wing feather maps and stuff. So that’s the best place to find me there as well.

Amy Sloan: Fabulous. And I will have links, of course, to all of those things in the show notes for this episode over at humilityanddoxology.com as well as a link so you can check out Joe and Kevan’s new book, The King’s Cadet. And I hope that you will take a moment to share this episode with a friend. If you’re watching the video, send them the YouTube link. If you’re listening in your podcast app, pass on the podcast to a friend who you think would be encouraged by today’s episode. And until next time, I will hope that you have a lovely rest of your day with friendship and creativity.