In a lively and insightful conversation, Anna Knaub from The Nurtured Bee discusses her deep love for Shakespeare, her flexible and grace-filled approach to homeschooling, and her strategies for making classic literature accessible and enjoyable as a high school literature teacher. We explored the relevance of Shakespeare’s themes, the importance of adapting homeschool schedules to family needs, and the value of using diverse resources to maintain a joyful and sustainable homeschool experience. Our discussion emphasized the need for flexibility, the joy of reading, and the enduring impact of great literature on education.
- What does it look like to study literature in our homeschool?
- Never Enough Shakespeare
- Homeschooling through different seasons of life
- Reading across genres and formats
- Key Takeaways:
- Listen to the full podcast episode "Nurturing a Love for Literature: Beowulf, Shakespeare, and Beyond with Anna Knaub" on Homeschool Conversations with Humility and Doxology
- You may also enjoy:
- Check out all the other interviews in my Homeschool Conversations series!
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What does it look like to study literature in our homeschool?
Anna’s advice for teaching literature emphasizes the importance of going beyond just reading a book for the sake of reading. She encourages parents to engage their children in literary analysis by asking simple but profound questions like “why?” This approach helps deepen understanding and fosters critical thinking.
Anna advises not to feel pressured to stick with a particular book if it’s not resonating; instead, find alternative literature that aligns with the same themes or time periods. She also stresses the value of seeking out resources and being flexible with curriculum choices, reminding parents that they have the autonomy to adapt their homeschooling to fit their family’s needs. Ultimately, it’s about modeling curiosity and exploration, creating a learning journey that both parents and children can share.
Never Enough Shakespeare
Anna began by expressing her deep love for Shakespeare, emphasizing the timelessness of his works. According to her, Shakespeare’s plays have endured through centuries because of the universal themes they explore. Whether it’s the humor that appeals across generations or the relatability of characters like Hamlet and Henry V, Shakespeare’s works resonate with readers even after 400 years. Anna highlighted the relevance of these themes, noting that concepts like jealousy, love, and the quest for justice are emotions everyone experiences, making Shakespeare’s characters accessible to all.
Last year, I read all of Shakespeare’s plays in one school year with my daughter, Emma. This ambitious project was not just an academic exercise but a bonding experience, providing a shared journey through the highs and lows of Shakespeare’s works.
This led to a discussion of Anna’s own Shakespeare challenge, where she invites others to join her in reading six of Shakespeare’s plays over 30 weeks. The challenge, which she is leading through True North Homeschool Academy, is designed to make Shakespeare accessible and enjoyable for students and parents alike. Anna’s approach emphasizes the absurdity and humor even in plays like Romeo and Juliet, which can make them more engaging for younger audiences.
In her role as an English teacher, Anna has developed study guides and reading plans that make Shakespeare’s works more approachable. She noted the importance of historical context in understanding the plays, especially for modern readers who may struggle with some of the themes that haven’t aged well. Anna’s guides include conversation pieces, historical tidbits, and proper ways to reference Shakespeare, making the plays not just a reading assignment but a deeper exploration of literature.
Homeschooling through different seasons of life
As the conversation shifted towards homeschooling, Anna and Amy discussed the realities of homeschooling through different seasons of life. Anna shared how she’s adjusted her homeschooling schedule to align with her family’s natural rhythms. For example, she discovered that her family thrives in warmer months and struggles during the winter. By structuring their school year to focus heavily on the months between April and November, Anna has found a way to homeschool that works for her family’s unique needs.
Anna emphasized the importance of flexibility and grace in homeschooling, especially during challenging times. She candidly shared her recent health struggles, including a diagnosis of Parkinson’s disease, and how it has affected her homeschooling approach. Rather than pushing through a rigid schedule, she’s learned to lean on open-and-go curricula like The Good and the Beautiful, which requires minimal prep and allows her to focus on what really matters. This flexibility has enabled her to maintain a joyful and consistent homeschool environment, even when life throws curveballs.
Amy echoed these sentiments, noting that there are seasons when a DIY homeschool approach works beautifully, and others when it’s okay to rely on more structured resources. The key, they agreed, is finding what works best for your family in any given season and not feeling guilty about making those choices. The ultimate goal is to homeschool faithfully and joyfully, adapting as needed.
Reading across genres and formats
Toward the end of our conversation, Anna shared some of her current reading habits, which include juggling multiple books across different formats. She’s been diving into a mix of historical nonfiction and lighter reads, balancing the heavy content of classical literature with what she describes as “junk food literature.” This balance reflects her philosophy of making reading enjoyable and sustainable, both for herself and her students.
Anna wrapped up the discussion by encouraging homeschool parents to use the resources available to them without guilt. By being kind to themselves and recognizing the need for flexibility, homeschool parents can create an environment where learning thrives, even in less-than-perfect circumstances.
This conversation was a reminder of the joys and challenges of homeschooling, the timelessness of great literature, and the importance of flexibility in both. Anna offers valuable perspectives on making the most of both education and life.
Key Takeaways:
- Relevance of Shakespeare: Shakespeare’s works remain timeless because they address universal themes like love, jealousy, honor, and the human experience, making them relatable across generations.
- Engaging with Shakespeare: Leaning into the absurdity and humor of Shakespeare’s plays can make them more approachable and enjoyable for students.
- Diverse Teaching Resources: Utilizing different resources like historical context, conversation pieces, and study guides can enrich the understanding and appreciation of Shakespeare’s works.
- Flexible Homeschooling Schedules: Adapting homeschooling schedules to fit the natural rhythms of the family, such as focusing more on school during warmer months, can make the experience more sustainable and enjoyable.
- Grace in Homeschooling: It’s important to extend grace to oneself and to children during difficult homeschooling seasons, understanding that some days will be more productive than others.
- Importance of Relatable Literature: Choosing literature that resonates with students’ experiences or familiar narratives can ease them into more challenging works.
- Using Open-and-Go Curriculum: For busy or challenging seasons, an open-and-go curriculum can provide a valuable structure, ensuring that essential subjects are covered without overwhelming the parent or child.
- Historical Context in Literature: Understanding the historical and cultural context of literature, such as the outdated humor in “The Merchant of Venice,” is crucial for modern readers to grasp the full meaning of classic works.
- Love for Reading: Both Anna and Amy emphasized the joy and importance of reading, whether it’s through deep, complex works like Beowulf or lighter, more entertaining reads.
- Community and Accountability: Engaging in community challenges, like Anna’s Shakespeare reading plan, provides accountability and makes the experience of reading and learning more enjoyable and collaborative.
Listen to the full podcast episode “Nurturing a Love for Literature: Beowulf, Shakespeare, and Beyond with Anna Knaub” on Homeschool Conversations with Humility and Doxology
Anna Knaub is a wife, a mother, and teacher. She has her degree in Secondary English Education from the University of Valley Forge and has been working with kids for over 20 years. She’s your average mom living in overalls, with a cold cup of coffee, trying to figure out this crazy life of motherhood and wifehood.
Find Anna Knaub Online:
- www.thenurturedbee.com
- www.instagram.com/thenurturedbee
- www.instagram.com/nurturedbeereads
- True North Academy
You may also enjoy:
- Anna’s Shakespeare Read Along Challenge
- Five Ways Vintage Books Can Enrich Your Homeschool (Plus One Way They Can’t!)
- Words, Words, Words: Why (and How) to Teach Writing
- Literature-Based Learning for Kindergarten: How to Make it Work
- Reading for the Love of God with Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson
- Knowing by Heart: the Powerful Beauty of Memory Work (with Andrew Pudewa)
- Reading, Writing, and Making Connections: Homeschooling High School English (with Betsy Farquhar)
- Strategies for Teaching Homeschool Writing (with Janie B. Cheaney)
- Hop, Skip, and a Rhyme: Listening Well and Delighting in the Beauty of Words (with Megan Andrews)
- Introduction to Dante’s Divine Comedy #100DaysofDante (with Kristen Rudd and Wesley Callihan)
- Reading and Teaching the Great Books (with Kristen Rudd)
- Identity, Grace, and a Literary Life (video interview with Missy Andrews from Center for Lit)
- Outsourcing Homeschool Writing: IF and WHEN to hire a writing tutor or join a writing class
- Exploring Shakespeare With Children: How to Play with the Bard in your Homeschool
- 12 Poems Every Child and Adult Should Memorize and Know By Heart
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Check out all the other interviews in my Homeschool Conversations series!
Amy: Hello, friends. I am so delighted today to be joined by my friend, Anna Knaub. She is a wife, a mother, and a teacher. Anna has her degree in secondary English education from the University of Valley Forge and has been working with kids for over 20 years. She is your average mom living in overalls with a cold cup of coffee, trying to figure out this crazy life of motherhood and wifehood. Anna and I spend a lot of time chatting with each other on Instagram about everything ranging from Shakespeare to Hurricanes hockey and rom-com tropes. She’s really fun, and I’m just really glad to have this opportunity to chat with you here. Anna, that was like an official introduction, but can you tell us a little bit about yourself, your family, how you became interested in homeschooling and what homeschooling looks like right now in your family life?
Anna: Absolutely. I have spent most of my life in Pennsylvania. I’m a military brat, so I was born in Germany. We spent some time in Washington State. I actually grew up outside of Philly in the Valley Forge, Phoenixville area. I have a deep love of history. Thankfully, it’s one of my favorite places. Then I met my husband, Ethan, when we were in college. We went to, it was Valley Forge Christian College, now the University of Valley Forge. I translated out to Lancaster, which is mostly known for its Amish population, but I always joke that I live in the land of cows and chocolate because my literal neighbors are cows. I’m about 15 minutes away from Hershey. We have a Dove factory in town, a Wilbur factory, and I’m genuinely surrounded by cows and chocolate. It’s great. We have two daughters, two daughters. Athena is six and Eleanor is about to turn four at the end of the month here. We have two cats and I know that you’ll appreciate this. The first one is Missy. The second one is Gimli. We have two dogs, Samwise and Strider. There’s obviously a theme there with that one. We always know the real Lord of the Rings fans when we tell people that our second dog’s name is Strider. They’re like, oh, that’s good. Yes, life is a little bit of chaos all the time around here with a full house. As far as getting into homeschooling, when I was 18 and in college, I worked at Vera Bradley at the Philadelphia Outlets. I met this crazy lady there and her name is Melissa Grande. She is still one of my best friends to this day. She was like the first, real crunchy homeschool mom that I’d ever met. She was sourdoughing and she had chickens and was homeschooling. I thought this lady was crazy, but we were best friends anyway. Then as I got a little older and started having children, I realized that she was not as crazy as I thought she was. Once we had Athena and I just was like, I can’t do this. I can’t do this. I can’t do this. I can’t do this. I can’t do this. I can’t do this. I can’t send my kid to school. I don’t want to leave my kid. I jumped into it. Athena is twice exceptional. She has sensory processing disorder and she is gifted. She is tested legitimately. I’m not just a mom that thinks my kid is awesome, even though she is. She is very smart. I did not feel that the school system would be able to serve her as well as I could, even though I felt like I had to. I was like, I had no idea what I was doing too. Yes, we have been homeschooling and doing things for a good three years now with her. This is her first official year with our state. That’s how I got into homeschooling. I just, I met a crazy friend and now here I am. It just sucked me in.
Amy: I love it. I hope we can all be that crazy friend that convinces some unsuspecting young mom to embark on this adventure. You have been a mom now for six years, a little more than six years. What are some of the things that being a mom has taught you? Are there things that about yourself now that maybe you didn’t know before you became a mom?
Anna: Yes. I think for me, I don’t have to do it all is the big thing. I come from a family with really strong work ethic, which is great. I am so grateful for that. I also had to learn having a child with extra needs and everything that it’s okay if the dishes don’t get done. They will be there at the end of the day, always looking at you, right? It’s okay if you have piles of laundry, which I know we’ve joked about on Instagram too. Just being okay with that and giving yourself grace in the season, something that I really leaned into. I think that’s really important. I think that’s really important. I think that’s really important. I think that’s really important. I think and learned in the last few years is life is so seasonal, right? Even the Bible is so seasonal. The Proverbs 31 woman is very seasonal too. It talks about how she plants her vineyard, but then she’s like prepared for snow, right? Obviously both of those things aren’t happening at the same time. Just relinquishing that, especially in the seasons that I know that we are both in right now in a lot of ways that it’s okay that I’m not making clothes. I’m not feeding my family like four beautiful meals a day. I’m not having lavish gardens. I’m not all things to all people at all times, all day, every day, 365 days a year. That’s something I think it’s easy early in motherhood to feel like you have to do those things or to feel like you are not doing enough stuff. Especially like, and I know that you’re like this too, like I’m a full-time stay-at-home mom and I do other things, but you feel like as a full-time stay-at-home mom, like I have to do this thing. My house should look like this, like all of this stuff. The reality is that that’s not reality. That is okay. Tiny humans, can you tell? Just really leaning into that understanding. I said, just giving, myself that grace for the different seasons and the ebbs and flows of life.
Amy: Yes. My friend Dawn Garrett talks about like the myth of the composite homeschool mom. She has this great image that she created where she basically made like a Frankenstein monster thing with bits and pieces of eyes and chins and nose from all these different women. It’s so easy as moms for us to look and see this mom making bread and this mom, reading Shakespeare. Yes. We can look at all these different things and we think, okay, so I have to do all of them all at once. We take the strengths from every mom that we see, and we try to put them into one super woman. That’s not realistic. No one mom is doing all of those things all at the same time. When we set that up as our expectation for ourself or for others, it just leads to disappointment and stress and anxiety. I love your reminder to just seasonal, to not try to do all the things all at once, and to realize that we are finite. We’re actually happier when we accept our finiteness rather than trying to do it all. Yes, absolutely, for sure. Anna, even before you were a homeschool mom, you were already a teacher. You’ve been in the teaching world, the education world for a while. You were a high school English teacher, and you still are a high school English teacher. How did you decide to teach high school English?
Anna: Yes. When I was in high school, I was actually between going to school for broadcast journalism and meteorology. I wanted to be a weather bunny, and teaching. I explored both of those options a bit, and by my senior year, I was pretty settled on going to be a teacher, but I didn’t know what I wanted to teach. I had taken a music theory elective when I was in high school. I’m very musical. I’m very musical. I’m very musical. I’m very musical. I’ve sung my whole life, and I very quickly realized that music theory was not my jam, and maybe I should not teach this. I’m pretty sure I passed because the band director so graciously gave me, you tried really hard points, but like triads and all that other jam, not. I went to public school, and my senior year, the curriculum, my major, and I was in high school. I was in high school, and I was in high school, and I was in high school. I decided to take both of those because I had enjoyed Shakespeare. The few times that I had read it in my school, you did a Shakespeare every year, whether it fit with, the theme of the year or not, which is a conversation we’ll have in a bit, I know. I took this full year of Shakespeare, and I just had the best English teacher my senior year. Mr. Hausman loved what he was teaching and was very knowledgeable, and when you have a teacher that likes what they’re teaching, it makes a difference, Mr. Palmer, who was my Shakespeare teacher for that elective, he also loved Shakespeare and loved what he was doing and teaching it. That’s the point of teaching, too, to a degree, is, you want to inspire students. I took Brit Lit and Shakespeare, and I had an incredible time. I already loved history, and I loved English. I also really like computers, which probably surprises some people. My grandfather worked for IBM for 30 years. My younger brother is actually in IT. I always say, my brother can take apart a computer and put it back together and all kinds of cool, gaming computers and stuff. I was Microsoft certified in high school. I felt that English was the thing that would get, me to do all of those things. I get to teach kids how to do presentations and use cool programs like Prezi and Padlet and Canva. I am a huge believer and proponent for the fact that you cannot have history without literature, and you cannot have literature without history. You can’t teach Beowulf without talking about the Anglo-Saxons and Sutton Hoo and Vikings and all of that stuff. I’m a huge believer in that. I’m a huge believer in that fun stuff. You can’t teach Canterbury Tales without learning about Thomas Beckett and Henry II and, everything that happened there to make Canterbury, a pilgrimage site. You obviously cannot teach Shakespeare without also talking about historical context. English really allows me to teach computer things. It allows me to teach history, which makes me just nerd out so hard. It allows me to, teach the literature and have the conversations. I love teaching kids to write, which is funny because I hated writing when I was in high school. I also wasn’t really great at it until, senior year, the light bulb went on. I think because I did struggle as a writer through high school, it’s made me a better teacher at teaching writing because I’m like, listen, I get it. You think the writing process is dumb. I too thought the writing process was dumb. Then I begrudgingly did the writing process and realized that it worked.
Amy: Yes.
Anna: That is that’s the long way around how I became an English teacher. Yes, I love it. It’s my favorite for sure.
Amy: I can just hear your passion and excitement and enthusiasm coming across. I am just thinking there’s maybe a mom listening who’s like, I want to provide this rich literary education. I want to inspire my children in this way, especially their teens. Maybe they feel eloquent. Maybe they didn’t have that high school English teacher that inspired them like you did. Maybe they feel like they don’t know all of this background of the history and the writing process and things like that. Do you have any advice or tips or encouragement for a homeschool, just an ordinary homeschool mom who’s trying to do this thing?
Anna: Yes. I think one of the things that I see a lot in, Facebook groups and stuff and everything that a lot of parents miss, if they’re teaching the English themselves, right? I think a lot of parents think if my kid is reading, then that’s enough. Listen, I’m almost 300 books into the year here, okay? I am not doing literary analysis on every book that I read, okay? It’s just not happening. There’s a difference between reading a book to read a book and reading it for understanding. Analysis. Going deeper in it. One of the easiest things that you as a parent can do if you have your kid reading something like The Great Gatsby is literally just asking the question why. One of the biggest components to literary analysis is, why did the author give Gatsby blue curtains, right? That’s always the argument. Does it represent his depression or did Gatsby just like blue? Because let’s be honest, Gatsby was like on a beach. Blue is a typical color for a beach, right? why did Gatsby make the decisions that he did? What was his motivation behind his actions? You can so easily take a book from reading it to read it to literary analysis and encouraging your kids to think deeper by just having them ask why. There are so many resources. Honestly, Pinterest is great. It still is. I’m on Pinterest all the time trying to find stuff. I have resources. There’s just so many resources out there. Don’t be afraid to try and find a unit plan for a book. if you’re not somebody who’s, signing your kid up for one of my classes or, buying a whole year open and go curriculum, there are options and opportunities. Out there for individual book units, you just have to sift through it. I would say don’t be afraid to change your book either. I was working with a mom here in Pennsylvania. I do homeschool consultations and evaluations in Pennsylvania. It’s a whole thing. She was going to have her 10th grade son read the Scarlet Letter, which is fine. There’s nothing wrong with the Scarlet Letter. He was ready to stab his eyeballs out with a pitchfork. He was like, Mom, this is awful. She messaged me and goes, he hates this. What can I do? I said, well, just read the Crucible. You’re still in the same time period there. You’re, it’s, just read the Crucible. She was like, oh, I can do that. Yes, nobody’s telling you have to read the Scarlet Letter, I would also say, find stuff that you all enjoy. make sure, listen, your kid’s not going to like every single book. It just, it’s not going to happen. You and I don’t like every single book. I don’t love all of the classics. I love Of Mice and Men. Grapes of Wrath makes me want to hide in a hole, I choose to teach Of Mice and Men because I don’t want to touch Grapes of Wrath for the 10 foot pole. that’s okay. Ambleside Online is a really great resource. I love Ambleside. It is so rich. I think it is incredible. some of the literature on there, as wonderful as it is, it’s classic. Again, it’s rich and it’s deep. I have parents every year that are like, oh yes, that was like a nightmare. I just want to be like, you could skip it. Your kid is still going to have an incredible education, I would say, ask the questions and encourage them to ask the questions too. Look for that why. Why did the author include this? Why did the character do this? don’t be afraid to change. If a book isn’t working for you, find something parallel, a different book from the author, a different book from the same time period. don’t be afraid to like ask around, hey, do you have any resources for this? because there’s a really good chance that somebody in your friend group or co-op or Facebook group or something can direct you to a resource for something that you’re interested in. I would say, ask the questions and encourage them to ask something that you’re looking for.
Amy: I love that too, because when you’re asking questions, you’re not having to already be the expert. I think, especially as, kids start getting a little older, we’re heading into junior high school years, moms can feel a lot of pressure. I don’t know all this stuff already. How can I homeschool if I don’t already know all of these things? It’s a good reminder, just like when they’re little and we talk about the joy of learning alongside your children as you homeschool, the same can still be happening. Those teen years, you can just ask questions together and, encourage your kids to ask questions as well, but you don’t have to already know the answers. You’re modeling that exploration and that humility towards the subject as well. Let’s come and learn this together. Then I also really liked your reminder that, the curriculum is not the boss of you. You were the boss of the curriculum, right? It’s a tool. That’s the perfect way to put that. Yes. You have, you have the power as the homeschool mom, to adjust, to make the curriculum fit your family and your needs. It’s actually a gift that homeschooling gives us for sure.
Anna: I love to encourage parents in that too. As I was saying, in Pennsylvania, we have this evaluation model for families. You register with your school district every year that you’re a homeschooler. Back in the day, parents would have to put a binder portfolio together, like big, like four or five inch binders. You turn that into the school district and the school district evaluated you and let like, that you could continue homeschooling, basically. They changed that model a number of years ago so that you get to pick a person to evaluate you, which I just think is awesome because parents get to pick a person that they like, that works for their family. You can stay with somebody for multiple years so they see the growth of your child. That’s something that I always encourage family even when looking for an evaluator, it’s okay if it’s not me. If you don’t think that I’m going to work for your family, I want you to have a positive homeschool experience. If I’m not the fit for you, that’s okay. It’s more important for me that you are having a good homeschool experience. That goes for curriculum too. I can recommend the good and the beautiful to you. It may not work for your family. That’s okay. There are some people, curriculum hop, hardcore, and that gives me anxiety. Oh, yes. For sure. There are people I follow on Instagram. They get through, a quarter of the way through a program, and they’re like, I don’t really like this. I feel like it’s not working for us. We’re going to change. By the end of the year, I’m like, that just kills me. There are ways to dodge and weave and swerve and manipulate and adjust that to make things work for your family without, not being able to do it. I think that’s a really good point. I think that’s a really good point. I think that’s a really good point. I think that’s a really good point. I think that’s a really good point. I think that’s a really good point. burying yourself seven curriculums deep too.
Amy: Yes. Oh, my goodness. I am so with you. I think that there’s that thought, if I just, maybe this, there’s a problem or we don’t, it’s not always fun. It’s still hard sometimes. There must be a better curriculum out there. If you’re always looking for the perfect curriculum that will keep your children always interested, no one will ever fight, everything will always be easy. It might just even do your dishes too. You’re going to be disappointed. Pick the imperfect curriculum and just do it faithfully a little bit every day.
Anna: Exactly. Exactly. Yes.
Amy: I want to talk to you, of course, about Shakespeare because I have to, because we share this mutual nerdy love for Shakespeare and it makes me so happy. You mentioned a little bit about your high school experience. I’m assuming that’s when you first started getting interested in Shakespeare. take us through your love journey with Shakespeare. Oh, my goodness. Yes. Why you think, no seriousness, why do you think including Shakespeare in home education is valuable or important?
Anna: Yes. Oh, my goodness gracious. This is like the biggest can of worms. As I said, in my public school, you read one Shakespeare a year. I was in honor of Shakespeare my freshman year. We actually read Othello and Romeo and Juliet. Sophomore year, we read Julius Caesar. Junior year, we read Hamlet. Senior year, we read Rick Beth. Then in my Shakespeare full year class, we read, oh, gosh, I was trying to think of them all last night before we did this and a good chunk more of them, obviously. I just had, again, so much fun. I feel like my teachers did a really good job of balancing, pointing out the humor, giving us that historical context, talking about why Shakespeare is timeless, and just making it, palatable for us as high schoolers, honestly. Then when I was in college, I did, all of my electives on medieval Renaissance literature. Again, Beowulf, Chaucer, Shakespeare. I just loved the dead dudes, When I was in high school still, I think I have it here. Do I have my Harold Bloom? I usually do. My Harold Bloom book isn’t here. Harold Bloom, he was… He was an incredible Shakespeare professor. I have many of his books. He wrote a book, Shakespeare, The Invention of the Human. He breaks down pretty much all of the characters in Shakespeare and how Shakespeare provided characterization. One of the things that he points out, which is so fascinating, is prior to Shakespeare, we don’t ever get really any inner monologue in literature. The closest that we get to it is, King David in the Psalms, in the Bible, because that’s obviously, basically a teenage boy’s diary, let’s be fair. Chaucer almost gets there, but Chaucer is still a narrator. He’s telling you about the characters and, their stories from that third-party perspective. Shakespeare was the first person to give you, the soliloquy. Shakespeare was the first person to give us that inner monologue in Hamlet, in Iago, in Much Ado About Nothing, He really invented this concept of, character motive and character drive. Again, just the concept of, feeling of a character driving the plot. Moving things forward. I think Hamlet’s probably one of the best examples of that, obviously. Obviously, him and Chaucer, they both created a few thousand words. That’s pretty cool, too. Shakespeare was the first guy to use vomit in literature, which I think, it always makes me laugh, too. Just when you read an analysis, like Harold Bloom’s Invention of the Human, it adds so much depth to what could just be words on a page. I also really like, and I’m sure you probably own half of these, too. I really like the Folger Shakespeare. For those of you who are watching, on YouTube, you can see it. I really love the Folger Shakespeare copies, because on the opposite side of where the play content is, there’s notes. If there’s specific biblical allegory, if there is, historical context, references there, they give you those notes, which, again, just adds more depth and richness to it, because we’re 400 years away from Shakespeare. Some of it does get lost in translation. Not everybody’s going to understand, the King Henry VIII and his six wives references. Not everybody’s going to understand the Edward the Black Prince references and Henry V, unless you’re really a historian. Yes, I think it’s a really good way to historical nerd like me, and it’s a problem. Shakespeare does that in a way that I don’t know that we’ve seen again. I’m sure there could be argument for, Tolkien. Obviously, we’re Tolkien fans in this house, minus Tom Bombadil. Good Lord, Tom Bombadil. Shakespeare just creates all of the human emotion. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard Judy Dench talk about Shakespeare, but she has on, Graham Norton and stuff. She, makes me cry every time she talks about it. That woman can whoop out Shakespeare like nobody’s business. In one of her interviews, she was talking about just the emotion of Shakespeare, too, and how he invokes that so eloquently and so precisely, which, again, prior to Shakespeare, you didn’t see that. You didn’t hear that. It didn’t, it just didn’t exist in the same way. I really love teaching those components to students and, pointing out those tidbits. Shakespeare was meant to be heard, not read, right? Shakespeare is a playwright. These are plays with characters and actors. It’s very easy for some of that to get lost in translation in a page, which I think it’s important to read. It’s important to read. It’s important to read. It’s important to read. It’s important to read Shakespeare out loud when you can. There are even, and we’ve talked about this, too, some really awesome movies, especially, Much Ado About Nothing. Denzel Washington has done incredible Shakespeare movies. Keanu Reeves is in one, even. I would say, also, don’t be afraid to, read Shakespeare out loud. I know you can find some of the Folger Shakespeare’s on Audible, even. They are fully casted and recorded, even, which is nice, too. I think finding resources like Invention of the Human. You can get on YouTube. There are some lectures of Harold Bloom talking about Shakespeare on YouTube. I offer resources, too. Shakespeare, I just love him so much. There’s just so much depth to everything. when I was a kid, I used to read Shakespeare. I used to read Shakespeare. When I was teaching Merchant of Venice, we did some pretty decent historical context on, the first Jewish ghetto and what that meant and what some of the laws were. We talked about, I found some really great podcast episodes about different, lawsuits and charges and inquisition things that were happening. They were even concerned about stuff like, if a Jewish nursemaid nurses my baby, I’m going to have to go to the hospital. If a Christian nursemaid nurses the Jewish baby, has the Jewish baby now, intaken communion through the Christian? All of these concepts and issues that we tend to lose because we’re so far removed from it. It adds that depth to the play. You understand why Shylock was so devastated when Jessica leaves or when he’s forced to convert or even the treatment of Shylock with Antonio. All of that stuff, it just feels so much bigger. It’s so much more painful for us as a modern audience to read that when you understand the historical depth that comes with it. Which, again, is why I teach English, because I get to, marry that historical and that English. Shakespeare is just a master of its own. It’s a master of its own. It’s a master of its own. It’s a master of its own. It’s a master class in all things. I could just gush forever.
Amy: I did not realize, I had not really contemplated, as you were saying that Shakespeare was the first one to give us this inner monologue, this motivation of the character driving the plot. I was, sitting here trying to come up with a counterexample. I was like, oh, she’s right. I’ve never thought about that. That’s one of the things that makes Shakespeare so timeless and so powerful is the way he communicates the humanity of his characters in a way that we can recognize ourselves. We can recognize, even aspects of yourself in some of his villains. I think he does such an incredible job making truly human bad guys, right? They’re not just flat characters. They’re complicated. Actually, Merchant of Venice, I think, is a great example. I love the character of Shylock. I think that play does such an incredible job of not just, writing on stereotypes, and it would have been, it could have been a cheap play to just sort of get some cheap laughs at the expense of cultural stereotypes. There’s some depth there, and there’s a compassion that you feel for his villains throughout his plays, I think. Not in a way where it would minimize, the reality of goodness, truth, justice, all those things. In a sense of, that’s, that’s humanity, right? We are, we are complex. I love that about Shakespeare. I think that’s why even teens, they can see the angst in a character, and be able to recognize their own life experiences in these Shakespearean stories. It’s not because the plots are relatable, because the plots are, crazy, whatever. The plots aren’t even sometimes the point, but the characters are so beautiful.
Anna: Yes, I just think it’s so important. One of the things that I love about Shakespeare, and you said it too, is how timeless he is. We talk about why that is a lot in our classes. He was doing plays for everybody from Queen Elizabeth I and King James, all the way down to, the poorest present, peasant, gnawing on a crust of bread, There are a few components that most people don’t understand. I think that’s, I think, pretty much all plays have that make this so transcendent against time and gender and social class and everything. The first is biblical references. Everybody in that time period would have known the biblical references, right? That just would have been a thing. I’ll even throw in the mythology references, too. Midsummer Night’s Dream is chock-full and overflowing with mythology references. Biblical and, mythology references, those are going to transcend time. Everybody’s going to know those generally. The second one is, I always say, it’s really funny, but, the body part jokes. again, this was, a lot of it was slapstick humor. Some of it may be not, the most appropriate in the world, right? Let’s be honest. I think it’s also important to recognize, especially when, we’re talking about, the, kids are older. You’re talking about high school, high school kids. It’s important that it’s in there because that comedic relief is so important in something like Romeo and Juliet, right? Because you don’t want somebody so depressed when they leave your play that they don’t want to come back and see your next one. You got to give them some, funny parts so that they’re not, totally destroyed. They’re like, oh, but do you remember this joke? body parts, because let’s be honest, the queen has body parts and so does the peasant in the front row. so…
Amy: A little bathroom humor is good for everybody.
Anna: A little potty humor is good for everybody, for sure. the third one is just, again, his characters. You said, just the realness and the relativity of the characters. Everybody understands and will experience jealousy. They’ll experience love. They will experience, maybe not a love triangle or a square or whatever Midsummer Night’s Dream is. they’ll understand things like history. They’ll understand, honor and, the need to prove oneself, right? Henry V was a hot mess in Henry IV. Prince Hal, they had very low expectations of him. They say in the beginning of Henry V, we did not expect much of him coming out of his youth, but here we are getting ready to kick France’s butt. Henry V himself, wants to prove himself. I think because he created such relatable characters, my uncle did not kill my dad and my mom did not marry my uncle. I think we can all relate to Hamlet and his drive for justice. In some degree, shape, or form, I think those are the things that really make, like I said, Shakespeare timeless across time periods. We still have body parts, We still understand history. We still understand the biblical references and even the mythological references. Those are just some things that, keep it relevant, even though it’s 400 years old.
Amy: That last year, my daughter Emma and I, did our own little Shakespeare challenge where we read every single one of Shakespeare’s plays over the school year. It was a lot of Shakespeare. It was incredible. I don’t know how you did it. It was, it was a lot. It was a lot. It was such a fun experience. It was so fun to do it together, to do it with her. she actually came on and recorded a video, a podcast episode with me about that as well. You are doing a Shakespeare challenge this year. Can you tell us a little bit about what that is?
Anna: Yes. I, I am an English teacher at True North Homeschool Academy, where I say, an online homeschool co-op, basically. you can do, a full, a full course load for kids, or you can do a la carte and just pick, one or two classes. I taught a full year of Shakespeare last year. we read six plays over our 30-week school year. we do Romeo and Juliet, Midsummer Night’s Dream, Much Ado About Nothing, Henry V, Macbeth, and The Merchant of Venice. Just over the years, even when I was teaching in public school and stuff, I would talk about what we were doing in class and people would be, oh, I wish I was in your class. You seem so fun. I wish my teacher had liked Shakespeare as much as you. I had done pre-service work with a teacher that hated teaching Shakespeare and hated teaching Romeo and Juliet because she felt so uncomfortable with it. I’m like, you just have to lean into the ridiculousness is honestly what it is. They’re, 12 and this all happens in seven days. It’s absurdity to the max. when you do that, it makes it easier. This year I decided to loop people in. I have a reading plan for the 30 weeks for the six plays that we’re doing. on Fridays after I teach my class, I will be posting, tidbits and historical context and fun facts. I will share, conversation pieces with my own students. I have, and that’s, all in a PDF. I’ve also provided note pages with how to appropriately reference Shakespeare because referencing plays is not the same as referencing a book. then I will also have available for purchase my actual study guides. following along is completely free. It’s a really fun opportunity, for parents and students to do something like you and your daughter did. Not quite as expensive as, extra as all of his plays, obviously. it gives you a little taste of everything. Romeo and Juliet and Macbeth are tragedies. Henry V is a history. Much Ado and Midsummer Night’s Dream are comedies. Very different comedies, though. Midsummer Night’s Dream is, it’s like the cartoon equivalent of a Shakespeare. Puck even says, this is all a dream. It totally feels like it because nothing makes sense and it’s wild. then Much Ado, About Nothing is very witty and it has a completely different type of humor to it. Even though they’re both comedies, it’s, two opposite ends of the spectrum. It’s more like Monty Python humor, honestly, is exactly what I liken it to. then Martian of Venice is technically a comedy. We in modernity call it a tragicomedy because of the forced conversion of Shylock and some different components there with that. It was written as a comedy. which is why historical context is important there to understand, oh, this is obviously not acceptable in today’s world. 400 years ago, that would have been funny. it’s one of those things that, didn’t age well. That’s exactly why it’s important to still read it and learn it. We will read those six plays. There’s three in the fall and three in the spring. I’m hoping that it’ll be a lot of fun. Have some more people join us. Especially for those adults, whether you’re homeschooling or, I just have friends that are, I want to read the Shakespeare’s. This gives me accountability without having to be overly accountable. to give you that plan and motivation and some extra tidbits to do it along with us.
Amy: Those plays that you’ve chosen are perfect introductions. those would be, I don’t know that I would go with the Romeo and Juliet. Personally, I’m with your friend who’s like, I know it’s ridiculous. I get what you’re saying, but I’m just, I’m just not my favorite. That being said, no, all those other ones are the, just the perfect introduction to Shakespeare, like the genre of Shakespeare. Those are all also pretty easy to understand. Some of them are a little bit harder. I think this is such a great opportunity for just have fun, have some fun with Shakespeare this year. I’ll make sure that link gets in the show notes too. If people want to follow along, they can do that.
Anna: Yes. Funny enough, I, Romeo and Juliet is not my most favorite either. I am like on that team with you. I can teach it and it’s fun to teach it. one of the reasons I pick it and it’s the first one that we do is even if you’ve never read a Shakespeare, everybody has an idea of the story of Romeo and Juliet. Everybody does. I’m dating myself here, whether you’ve seen the Wishbone version or like, anything in between, like even freshmen that take that class are like, oh yes, I know like the plot line of Romeo and Juliet. Because of that, it’s the easiest one to start with because you already are not having to work as hard to understand because you already do basically. I just want to say I’m on that team with you. I would love to teach Hamlet over like Romeo and Juliet, but it’s a little bit harder to get into. Yes. It’s Romeo and Juliet. I think every high schooler should end up having to read Romeo and Juliet at some point in time because there are really good like sonnets in Romeo and Juliet. I think it’s a really great example of Shakespeare’s wordplay. is it the, but software light through yonder window breaks? Something in that. There just like is straight up a sonnet. It is a Shakespearean rhyming sonnet in there. he just has really eloquent literary devices, his metaphors, his similes, his illusions. Because of that, like I said, it just makes a really good, like foundational Shakespeare because it just has a lot of those quintessential components to it, which then makes it easier to pick out when we get into the harder ones, like Henry the fifth and Macbeth. Even when we get into the, I don’t know, the, Yes. Yes.
Amy: That makes total sense. By the way, Wishbone is on YouTube. I have, I have shown my kids found old Wishbone episodes, which is really fun.
Anna: Yes. Yes. I, if we’re really honest, right, if we’re really honest, Shakespeare and reading or Wishbone and reading rainbow are probably why I’m an English teacher. Let’s call it what it is here between reading rainbow and Wishbone there. I had no chance.
Amy: I love it. I have so enjoyed chatting with you today. Thank you for taking the time to come and talk with me. Before we, before we wrap up, I have to ask you the questions I’m asking all my guests this season. The first is just, what are you personally reading lately?
Anna: Everything. I always have like a Kindle book, an audio book, and at least a hard copy book or two going. I’m standing here looking at all of my books. The one that I’m actually reading is not here right now, which doesn’t surprise me, actually. I have been reading, I’ve been listening to, that’s not the right app. Sacred Home. Habits of a Sacred Home. Habits for a Sacred Home by Jennifer Pepito is what I’m listening to right now. I just finished listening to Dan Jones. He has two books. I’m listening to Dan Jones’ Sacred Home by Jennifer Pepito. He has two books, Powers and Thrones and The Plantagenets that I just listened to. If you are looking for a good narrative style history book that’s like engaging and entertaining without feeling like you’re reading a history book, I can’t recognize, I can’t recommend his stuff more. He is incredible and he has awesome podcasts too. Dan Jones is like my favorite and he’s not old, which sounds really funny. He’s 42, but I’ve been following him for years. He’s like forever 32. In my mind. I feel like that makes a difference. he’s not like this old, like stodgy professor that you think of. He’s like a cool history guy. Yes, I’ve been reading him and the Jennifer Pepito book, Sacred Home. I’ve been reading The Dudleys, which is about the Dudley family during the Tudor times. Robert Dudley, Gulliford Dudley, who married Jane Grey. Again, I’m getting real deep here. That is Joanne. Let me find her last name here. I can’t find her last name, but I will find it. That’s been the hard copy book I’ve been reading. Then just all of my books for school, all the fun, dead people, Chaucer. I reread Baylor. I read Beowulf the other day, because I’m getting ready to teach that again. Yes.
Amy: You can never have too much Beowulf.
Anna: No. Oh gosh, that was one of Tolkien’s favorites. It’s really funny. If you read The Hobbit, or even if you’ve just seen the movies after you’ve read Beowulf, you’re like, that’s practically plagiarism. You’re like, yes, like Loki, The Hobbit is half of the storyline of Beowulf. Beowulf wasn’t found until the 1800s. I’m like, I’m like, I’m like, I’m like, I’m like, I’m like, I’m like, I’m like, I’m like, I’m like, I’m like, but Beowulf wasn’t found until the 1800s. Tolkien, when he was analyzing it and translating it and everything in the early 1900s, he was like, one of the first guys, even though it’s the oldest piece of Anglo-Saxon literature we have. It was hidden in a library, and it survived like two fires. It was just chilling on some dude’s library shelf in England, and they found it. They were like, hey, we think this is a portrait. That’s how we have Beowulf. It’s relatively, it’s old, but new, which I think is fun, too.
Amy: Oh, my goodness. I have so many copies of Beowulf. I have the Tolkien, his sort of personal copy. It wasn’t like an official translation he did to print. Then I have like the bilingual Beowulf. It has the Old English and the modern translation. I have the illustrated Beowulf. I have just the regular Beowulf. I have the children’s picture book Beowulf that only uses words. That came from Anglo-Saxon. Only words that come from words before 1066. Before the Norman invasion. It’s a really cool children’s picture book. Yes. I’m a big Beowulf fan.
Anna: We clearly have a thing with these dead guys. Beowulf is just like the top of the list there. It’s fine. It’s fine. It’s fine. This is why we get along so well, Anna.
Amy: It is. It really is. That and hockey. That and hockey. I will try. I’m trying. You’re convincing me here, little by little. The final question I have for you, Anna, is just what is your best tip for helping with a homeschool day or season that just seems to be going completely off the rails?
Anna: Yes. You and I have been living this and I’m sure anybody listening has probably followed you and known to. Just make it easy on yourself. Honestly, we have been using the Good and the Beautiful curriculum for our math and our English and it is open and go. I probably will do that. I’m going to do that. I’m going to do that. I’m going to do that. I probably would not be surviving homeschooling without it just because I just have not had like the bandwidth to do any more than that. I know that like I can minimally be like, okay, we’re going to do our English lesson today. We’re going to get through a math lesson today. Oh, you really like math today and you’d like to do two lessons of it? Great. Let’s do it because it takes no prep and I don’t have to think about it. Whether it’s you or your children, again, just having grace with yourself and with your children. I have parents that sometimes are like, she just fights me on this. I’m like, so if she doesn’t want to do it that day, like just skip it. Now you can’t do that five days a week. You can’t do that with every subject or one subject all the time. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and do it. try and look at the schedule for yourself and figure out what will work, for you. something that I’ve noticed with us in our homeschooling the last few years is we are the best homeschoolers between April and like before Thanksgiving. when the weather is warm, we do school outside all the time. physically I don’t do very well once the weather turns. I, my joints just like fall apart and I’m not great at staying consistent homeschooling in winter, which is funny. I think most people, they get really cozy and like, they feel like it’s their best. We are the opposite. We are warm weather people. I sat down and I looked at my calendar and in the state of Pennsylvania, we have to have 180 days. we have to like document that attendance. I figured out that like, if I do four days a week from, April to that November that we can take December, January and February off and only need to do like a few days of school in those three months. I’m like, why am I trying to force myself to do school through the winter? When three years in a row, now we fall off the bandwagon, like with the holidays and with my health and everything. I just sat down and was like, I’m going to figure out a schedule that works with the natural rhythm. I was like, I’m going to figure out a schedule that works with the natural rhythm of our home. that may change next year. That may change five years from now as my kids can do things more independently. I would say definitely make it easy on yourself. we all want to have these rich, beautiful homeschool experiences every day, every year for our children and for ourselves too. we’re like, we don’t want to look back and say, I didn’t give my kids the 100% or we don’t want to look back and say like, I wish I would have done more. just understanding that more might happen next month or more might happen next year. you were, just posting about how Isaac, like he hasn’t been reading a whole lot with his eyeballs. He’s getting better at that. he’s been listening to really great stuff. What? That’s the season you guys are in. My kids have listened to the secret garden, like playing magnet tiles and stuff. I think four times over now, that’s okay. I think giving ourselves the grace to be okay with that is the biggest thing. I was diagnosed with Parkinson’s at the end of May. I started having like issues over the winter. Then I basically did nothing through January and February. I had all these doctor’s appointments, because nobody could figure it out. I was like, I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t what was wrong with me. I have dysautonomia and I was passing out and it’s all been really fun. I was like, we’re watching national treasure for history today. We’re watching Liberty kids also on YouTube, by the way, for our history today. We’re going to listen to books because I actually hate reading out loud, which is a really funny fact about me. I hate reading out loud. I’m like, we’re going to listen to books and are going to build me like a dinosaur zoo. That’s just what it’s going to be. Yes, have grace for yourself and just be willing to be fluid. What? The easy resources like YouTube and Open Go Curriculum are there for a reason. You’re not a worse homeschool mom for using any of them. It’s why they’re there. Yes, I’ve had seasons. I actually
Amy: love like a good DIY homeschool plan. I have seasons where I just go all in on that. Then there are other seasons where you just need to be able to open and read what is on the page and call it good. They’re both okay. It’s not like the right or the wrong or the good and the bad choice. It’s just the best choice is the one that’s going to get done faithfully, joyfully, mostly joyfully and consistently, right? That’s really important. Yes. Yes. Anna? I am so excited that we’ve been able to chat today. I can’t wait to share this conversation. Can you let people know where they can find you all around the internet?
Anna: Yes, I am. Annie F. Downs always says that I am embarrassingly easy to find. Everything is The Nurtured Bee. You can follow me on Instagram at The Nurtured Bee. My website is The Nurtured Bee. Then I also started a second Instagram account, Nurtured Bee Reads. I’ve been reading a ton. I read a lot of mostly closed door romance, which is basically like Hallmark movies in a book form. They’re really cheesy. When you spend a lot of time reading thicker things like Harold Bloom and Shakespeare and Chaucer and, Kate Chopin and all of the fun dead people, it’s nice to like, basically like have the junk food literature. It’s nice because it’s clean and it’s still good. Everybody has happy endings. Who’s not a sucker for like a good romance once in a while? I don’t watch a lot of TV. Books are it. Yes, The Nurtured Bee is my website and my Instagram page then.
Amy: I will have all of those links and the links as well to your courses in the show notes for this episode over at humilityanddoxology.com. Thank you to everyone who is listening or watching. Please take care. Take a minute to make sure you are subscribed to the podcast in your app. Leave a rating and review, five stars would be great. If you’re watching on YouTube, do make sure that you’re subscribed to the channel as well. You don’t miss all of the wonderful homeschool conversations coming your way this season. Anna, I hope you have a great rest of your day.
Anna: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. This is such a joy.
